A Harlot in Seventh Heaven

Welcome to our first episode! No better way to dive into the deep end than with the Camden family in Seventh Heaven. While Mrs. C makes dinner for 12 and a prom dress with 3 hours to spare, everyone else feels big feelings about s-e-x.

Transcript

SPEAKER_00 0:01

Hey you! Come on over. Mom's not home till 6 and we're exploring the TV and movies that made you turn down the volume so your parents wouldn't hear. We're going to build our intimacy literacy and dig into all the weird messages we took from pop culture about sex, relationships, and ourselves. Because, let's be honest, this was all the sex ed we got. Today, we are discussing a completely unhinged episode of 7th Heaven. I am joined by Blake They are a relationship therapist specializing in gender and sexuality and absolutely the one most likely to sew a prom dress with five minutes remaining.

SPEAKER_01 0:46

Oh my god, incredible. And I'm joined by Veronica, local harlot about town. She's a sexuality educator, coach, and intimacy director for theater. Today we're going to talk a little bit about the Like a Harlot unhinged episode of Seventh Heaven. This was episode 20 of season 2.

SPEAKER_00 1:07

Blair, can you tell us what Seventh Heaven even is? I'm

SPEAKER_01 1:10

so glad you asked because I wrote down the show description. Please. Because I have never seen it before we watched it for this and wow. It's something. So the description is pretty short. Seventh Heaven centers around the Camden family consisting of Minister Dad Eric, Homemaker Mom Annie, and their five kids Matt, Mary, Lucy, Simon, and Ruthie. The family, along with their adorable dog, Happy, lives in Glen Oak, California. The series chronicles the many complex issues of growing up in the world today. And that's the show. This episode's short description was Mary and Lucy set themselves up for disastrous dates, and Eric unwittingly fixes his son up with the senior slut. I'm a little surprised that they were allowed to put slut in the description.

SPEAKER_00 1:58

I know. They never use that word in the episode.

SPEAKER_01 2:00

No. They don't actually. actually say slut at any point during the show

SPEAKER_00 2:04

listener if you've never seen an episode of seventh heaven uh obviously you weren't watching uh probably the cw or fox family uh after school special times um and i just need you to know that this show exists in the world where there's lots of instrumental music that takes place to transition us from scene to scene telling us how to feel and making the dialogue seem wiser than it actually is so just go there with us to the year 1996 because that's when this bad boy started okay thank you i just needed us to you know what let's put in some like little flavor emotional guitar in the background of this recording to really give the people what they need to know

SPEAKER_01 2:52

about the vibes okay i actually need you to record your singing because i've been hearing you sing the theme song multiple

SPEAKER_00 2:57

times and it's for my version is seventh heaven as sung by garth brooks yeah it's like when i see the happy faces smiling back at me i didn't know i knew all those words but i but i do okay so take us there blair

SPEAKER_01 3:17

all right let's take us there we'll just get into the beginning because this is a little taste test pancake of an episode so it opens straight into the action zoomed close in on mom's face in the shocked me and unsettled me a little bit I wasn't ready to be that close to anyone

SPEAKER_00 3:36

as soon as it started it does start with a close up and it's cold open there's no intro at first

SPEAKER_01 3:42

cold open frigid two kids Simon the youngest son and his friend Kyle come in they kick their mom out of the kitchen because they need to be alone after a hard day at school

SPEAKER_00 3:53

yeah they seem traumatized by something that has happened at school

SPEAKER_01 3:56

something mysterious has happened at school mom asks no questions just leaves. She's like, oh, okay. I'll get out of your way. I'll get out of your way.

SPEAKER_00 4:05

I wasn't cooking dinner for a family of 18,000. I

SPEAKER_01 4:08

wasn't making lasagna from scratch, which we see later in the episode. Surprising.

SPEAKER_00 4:12

Ruthie's favorite.

SPEAKER_01 4:14

She does leave. They start talking about a mysterious video they saw in health class. They say, today our lives are changed forever. Forever. Yes. The implication, and they use this language later, but not in this scene, is that now they've become men. Now that they've in this video which they call the film it's like when a girl monkey meets a boy monkey

SPEAKER_00 4:37

it seems like it was a sex ed video explaining mating but instead of talking about human mating they use a video of monkeys

SPEAKER_01 4:49

having sex yes well and here's a little it seems a little inconsistent to me it surprised me because Simon is very anti this video he's pissed off by it he hates it so Something should be left to the imagination.

SPEAKER_00 5:03

Yeah he's very old school. Geographic. He's very old school.

SPEAKER_01 5:06

But he is also the one who says my parents have had a million talks with me. They're constantly like talking with me about sex and like relationships and he keeps saying like well I don't want to have another one with them. The other kid Kyle is the one who seems a little intrigued by the video. Sure. And he says like really your parents talk to you about sex. My parents have never talked to me about sex. Not once.

SPEAKER_00 5:36

Right.

SPEAKER_01 5:38

So that felt interesting because I would have expected the kid who like I don't know, is used to talking about sex. The pastor's son. Yeah. The kid who's used to talking about sex surprises me. It's the pastor's son. And also that he's like, yeah, I hate this. Not like, I mean, I already know this, whatever. Why is he so traumatized if he already knew a lot of

SPEAKER_00 6:00

it? Well, I imagine that the conversations he's had with Pastor Camden and his mother was... not so much about the fine details as it is about like when a man loves a woman very much and they've thought about it and they've gotten married right like that's the talk that the Camdens are giving their kids they're not giving their kids like here is and maybe like the science of reproduction but there seems like there's something difficult about this video of monkeys literally having sex on the screen yeah which is I'm fascinated by the school system, that they're bold enough to show these kids videos of monkeys having sex on screen, but are too uncomfortable to actually teach kids about sex between humans. Sans video. Yes. Right.

SPEAKER_01 6:54

Well, and in the same plot line, so this is one of the major plot lines of this episode. Toward the end of the episode, the pastor father finally does corner this kid and is like, well, we are obviously going to talk about the movie you've seen at school. Right. What interested me when they did have like a little hint of a talk about it was Simon was direct and said like, we're talking about sex like all the time or the school talked about sex. He says the word sex. Yes. The dad is really hesitant and talked around it. And he was like, well, you know, some kids only learn what the school teaches you about men and women. He doesn't say sex. And I thought that was really interesting that his young son who was heavily a of this discussion was a lot more direct than he actually was

SPEAKER_00 7:42

right and the fact that he just says men and women which first second of all second of all I feel like that's if that's the teaser of the conversation we're getting between Reverend Camden and Simon as like his style of talking about sex I imagine a lot of this video was probably new for Simon

SPEAKER_01 8:01

right that's why it's like it doesn't add up because if they've had a lot of detailed discussions about sex that yeah it just seems so incongruent and strange

SPEAKER_00 8:11

yeah it's and Simon is so old school yeah he's like what happened to romance what happened to nice dates and flowers is nobody a romantic anymore I'm like it just feels like I don't know what the showrunner's messaging is is it to just display every single option of how people might feel about sex

SPEAKER_01 8:33

I don't

SPEAKER_00 8:34

know because it didn't seem

SPEAKER_01 8:35

confusing

SPEAKER_00 8:36

I didn't know what the message was I

SPEAKER_01 8:37

didn't get the clear message moral message I needed from Seventh Heaven on this one. How am I supposed

SPEAKER_00 8:42

to feel? Seventh Heaven's the only sex ed I got. I

SPEAKER_01 8:44

didn't get the monkey video.

SPEAKER_00 8:47

I got Seventh Heaven. I got men

SPEAKER_01 8:48

and women from Revan Camden. Okay, so this brings us to the other, like the primary plot of the episode has to do with the senior prom.

SPEAKER_00 8:59

Big day. It's the big day also. It's

SPEAKER_01 9:03

like literally the day before prom when this begins.

SPEAKER_00 9:06

Yes.

SPEAKER_01 9:06

And then prom day is is

SPEAKER_00 9:09

how was your prom experience that way people were talking about and planning for prom for like months

SPEAKER_01 9:14

yes because they announced the theme and then you want to figure out who you're going with or if you're going at all I did not go spoiler alert

SPEAKER_00 9:21

no I went with all of my pals I went to a Catholic all girls high school and we rented a school bus because we were those hipster kids it's fine it was 2007 we rented a school bus and it was a bunch of nerdy hipster theater kids

SPEAKER_01 9:42

nice

SPEAKER_00 9:43

yeah

SPEAKER_01 9:43

that sounds fun

SPEAKER_00 9:44

it was yeah but we had to start planning eons in advance gotta rent the school bus you gotta figure out that you're renting your transportation so the fact that Matt Camden heartthrob amongst us by the way we can talk about that as we go I mean I think I thought he was hot when I was a kid but in this rewatch I'm like okay Matt camden i see you uh he is like oh i'm not gonna go because it's a couple thing yeah so i'm not a couple yeah apparently at this school couples are the only people going to prom apparently we haven't evolved yet to the point that groups of friends go together and

SPEAKER_01 10:23

except for the fact that his sisters are saying i hope that he doesn't have a date because then he'll have to take one of us and no one at school knows we're related

SPEAKER_00 10:33

there's a very and this is not i hate to break it to you yes this is an audio medium. Blair's eyes just got so big. I hate to break this to you, Blair. I'll hold your hand when I say this. This is not the first time that there's a weird romantic undertone between the daughters and Matt. There's another scene that's about, I think it's Mary's first kiss.

SPEAKER_01 10:58

Where

SPEAKER_00 11:00

I think she almost asks if he'll practice on her. I know. Correct me if I'm wrong. Somebody email me about this. I think that that's what happens so anyway there's weird undertones gulp uh yeah so anyway so it's the day before prom what happens it's

SPEAKER_01 11:20

the day before prom

SPEAKER_00 11:22

and poor mrs camden is trying to keep this family afloat with no gratitude

SPEAKER_01 11:26

she's trying to keep the shit together and so eric's at work one of his congregants comes in the father of a girl at school who is in matt's grade and he says my daughter has a lot of friends who are boys but no boyfriend and i want her to go to prom well can you ask your son if he'll take her

SPEAKER_00 11:43

which Can we talk about like the larger context in rewatching this show now? Let's just name it for the people is that the actor playing Pastor Camden has since admitted to at least three instances of child sexual abuse. And so this scene, the other guy comes in and he's obviously nervous. He just goes straight into his pitch, which is like, I have a question for you. And I really hope that you can that you can help me out. My daughter needs a date for the prom. And Mr. Camden looks all flustered. He's like, I'm not sure what you mean. And like the bit is kind of that at first. Pastor Camden is like, are you asking? Are you asking me to take your daughter to prom? Yeah. Which did not age well. Not at all. Like milk. OK, so he's like what?

SPEAKER_01 12:40

So he says, I don't. Well, I don't know. He sort of agrees at first, but then wants to back up. because i think he realizes i don't want to tell my son who what to do what to do which we love we love that but love autonomy but then the other dad is like no no no i've heard through the high school rumor mill your son is the only remaining eligible bachelor without a date to the prom which is like what the hell is kind of rumor mill and

SPEAKER_00 13:03

what kind of school is

SPEAKER_01 13:04

this plugged into this

SPEAKER_00 13:06

no idea which is contrary to what we later hear about his relationship with his daughter that they don't they don't talk at all

SPEAKER_01 13:11

right yeah that they hardly talk so where he getting his info if it's not from his daughter his only child question marks anyways um i guess to continue with that plot then later when he comes home in the evening eric and his wife annie have a discussion should i ask matt to take this girl connie to the prom

SPEAKER_00 13:33

connie sweet connie

SPEAKER_01 13:34

sweet sweet connie and annie's like no we shouldn't tell us on what to do i think that's wrong love that eric is like i agree but i'm not telling him i'm asking him she indicates like Like, this is all you. I'm not having any fun. Go ahead, brother. Yeah. Do your thing, whatever. Matt comes in. Okay, this also is a great instance of if they just fucking talked about it, we could resolve a lot of the tension right now.

SPEAKER_00 13:56

Which is fascinating because they do nothing but talk.

SPEAKER_01 14:00

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 14:01

But they don't talk about the important, whatever.

SPEAKER_01 14:02

Right. So Matt comes in.

SPEAKER_00 14:04

With his shiny, beautiful 90s boy band hair. Shiny

SPEAKER_01 14:08

90s boy band hair flowing in the breeze.

SPEAKER_00 14:10

Like an Irish setter with that hair. It's flowing. It's lustrous. It's like a chestnut color. Anyway. It's beautiful.

SPEAKER_01 14:20

Anyways.

SPEAKER_00 14:21

Great jawline.

SPEAKER_01 14:25

I love the dramatic gulping sorry I'll stop Eric then says hey what if you took Connie to the prom and Matt's like no I

SPEAKER_00 14:33

don't think that's a good

SPEAKER_01 14:33

idea I don't think that's a good idea

SPEAKER_00 14:35

basically I don't think you want me to take her to the prom yeah

SPEAKER_01 14:38

and he says I've got my reasons and this part feels like pretty good regular teenager shit where dad is like what she's not pretty enough for you which that feels messed up but then Matt immediately is like okay fine I'll take her fine I'll do it

SPEAKER_00 14:51

but when you find out the real reason which you will

SPEAKER_01 14:54

yeah

SPEAKER_00 14:55

You can't be mad at me. And

SPEAKER_01 14:56

they're like, okay. Right. So that's the part. I believe a teenager would say that. That was the most, yeah. I find it very strange that his parents' reaction was just, oh, okay.

SPEAKER_00 15:08

No further questions. For being such involved parents, the fact that they're like,

SPEAKER_01 15:14

oh, well, I got my way, so. What's the worst that could happen?

SPEAKER_00 15:19

Okay. And then the sisters find out who are kind of our Greek chorus in this experience. in that like we turn to them to see how the common folk feel about this girl because they do go to the same school yes which how does no one know that they're related

SPEAKER_01 15:34

right it must be a massive fucking school

SPEAKER_00 15:36

yeah yeah which was your school big

SPEAKER_01 15:39

um I mean it wasn't enormous it was pretty big I went to public school how many people like in your graduating class my graduating class was maybe I don't know 200 300

SPEAKER_00 15:51

okay so on the tinier side

SPEAKER_01 15:52

yeah not huge like um I went to school in Cary and there were definitely bigger schools like in Raleigh so it wasn't tiny like I didn't know everybody

SPEAKER_00 16:03

okay anyway who's to know but I feel like you gotta know whatever yeah it's obviously it seems since Mary and Lucy are always together like obviously they're attached at the hip so it's like yeah good for Matt I guess

SPEAKER_01 16:21

whatever I guess they're just stalking him during the day not actually interacting with him and any case they they spot them chatting and they realize oh my god he's taking her to prom she's the school slut again

SPEAKER_00 16:32

mom and dad would never allow that if they knew yeah and like yeah so they're sitting there being judgmental of this girl for being a slut a harlot

SPEAKER_01 16:42

which we never actually find out exactly what that means no we don't

SPEAKER_00 16:48

and so they're judging this girl meanwhile their subplot is that they are so desperate for dates they are so desperate to be able to date that when they get a phone call on the homeland line

SPEAKER_01 17:00

um clear plastic phone spotted by the way for anyone who remembers that aesthetic when electronics were made with clear plastic housing so you could see all the circuit boards and shit inside them i loved that

SPEAKER_00 17:12

that was a special time i

SPEAKER_01 17:14

loved it

SPEAKER_00 17:15

bring it back

SPEAKER_01 17:16

i know

SPEAKER_00 17:16

yeah so they they get this phone call and this guy's like hey um i'm a And they, no hesitations, are like, yeah, sounds great.

SPEAKER_01 17:31

But don't

SPEAKER_00 17:31

tell Matt.

SPEAKER_01 17:32

He might not like it. Yeah. Gross.

SPEAKER_00 17:37

I know. So they're all panicked. They can't figure out who these guys, Kyle and Casey, are. They're weirded out, but they're like, I'm excited. We should invite them to our house. Yeah. As though that's the safest option. So they're preparing for these two random men to come to their home. Yeah. for a date with them, all the while judging Connie for being a slut. So it just feels like, it feels like, you know?

SPEAKER_01 18:06

Yeah. Well, so, and this is all the day of the prom. So morning at school, Matt is like, Connie, will you go to prom with me? She says, I don't have literally anything to wear. He says, no problem. My mom can sew. Come over after school. And within the time after school and before prom, she will sew you a custom

SPEAKER_00 18:24

dress. mom's doesn't do anything

SPEAKER_01 18:26

yeah and she fucking does

SPEAKER_00 18:29

she does which is you know I love a montage with fashion yes and it's like catnip she does do a beautiful dress and yeah it's like my mom and my sisters are wizards at this stuff just come over

SPEAKER_01 18:40

yeah and they keep doing they do the montage and she takes a nap hard he's fucking sleeping

SPEAKER_00 18:45

he's taking a nap the whole time

SPEAKER_01 18:47

yeah he gets dressed in five minutes

SPEAKER_00 18:50

yeah meanwhile this girl's getting her makeup done by the sisters they're picking out shirts shoes.

SPEAKER_01 18:55

Mom is designing and sewing a dress

SPEAKER_00 18:57

made from curtains. But then she finds this fun little black faux fur fringe piece that makes the top, like the neckline of the dress. It's very 90s and also makes it fashionable for the youth of today. A little sexy. It's a little sexy. Spaghetti straps? Spaghetti straps. I know. I know. So she makes her a bomb ass dress. Yes. She looks great. Without question. Yes. And then we have the she's all that moment where she comes down the stairs and it's like Matt is seeing her for the first time it's

SPEAKER_01 19:32

like wow she is kind of hot

SPEAKER_00 19:34

you look beautiful and so they go to prom oh they go to dinner they had dinner reservations then they go to prom and immediately before they even walk through the door of the prom she sits down on a bench with him and starts trying to make out with him

SPEAKER_01 19:46

poor Connie because she indicates that this is like she's come to understand sex is transactional and this is what she owes him for being nice to her and taking her out to dinner

SPEAKER_00 19:55

I've never been to a restaurant that nice I know I know and she's

SPEAKER_01 19:59

like I know that it's like a hit to your reputation you didn't have to bring me to prom at all like I really appreciate everything you're doing for me so I guess I owe you making out sex of some kind something

SPEAKER_00 20:09

yeah basically um and he like it takes many turns this

SPEAKER_01 20:16

conversation it was a roller I kept I had a whiplash like oh my god am I agreeing with him or absolutely

SPEAKER_00 20:23

because yeah he he's so fascinating he's like you know we don't have to do that like we don't have to do anything like that and she keeps trying to kiss him and eventually he

SPEAKER_01 20:36

well he launches into this speech but right before his hideous speech he's like you know I don't really care what other people say they can say what they want about me we don't have to do anything and then he's like we don't even okay this is also wild he says we don't even know each other which is true well do you want to get to know each other and he says hmm okay Let me ask about your deepest trauma.

SPEAKER_00 20:57

Yes. How is it living in a single household with only a dad? That's his get to know you starter question.

SPEAKER_01 21:04

Yeah. Which was like, wow, bro.

SPEAKER_00 21:06

Guffaw.

SPEAKER_01 21:07

Yeah. Unbelievable. You could do a little warm up.

SPEAKER_00 21:11

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 21:12

You could warm it up a little.

SPEAKER_00 21:13

How do you like high school? Right. Like anything. That's even a terrible

SPEAKER_01 21:16

question.

SPEAKER_00 21:17

What do you do for fun? What do you do?

SPEAKER_01 21:19

What do you do when you're not fucking dudes? Yeah. Other than fucking every man in the school. What do you do for fun?

SPEAKER_00 21:24

right no no straight to childhood trauma

SPEAKER_01 21:28

which she just answers yeah and it's really sad she's like really lonely she says her and her dad don't really talk he hasn't educated her about sex which again the show seems to be coming out pro sex ed because she's like it is coming pro sex

SPEAKER_00 21:40

ed

SPEAKER_01 21:41

yeah which is very interesting

SPEAKER_00 21:43

but the sex ed they're pro is with a waiting until you're married and with a man or like in a hetero way for sure for sure

SPEAKER_01 21:53

um so But she also is like, she learns that her dad keeps telling her men only want one thing. And so she's saying, I want guys to like me. So why not give them the one thing they want?

SPEAKER_00 22:05

The rationale stands.

SPEAKER_01 22:06

Yeah. Frankly. I can see how she got there. Yeah. Okay. Matt. Take me there. Take me there. Now he says, have you gotten a return on that investment? Which is like the weirdest way to say it. Right. To say like, do the guys stick around? Is that working for you? Yeah. What are you getting? Do you like that? Are you getting anything out of it? Mm-hmm. what he asked are you getting a return on that investment okay then he gets into his evo psych bullshit yeah look all guys want to be the pursuer it's the old hunt and gather instinct against a woman's old nurture instinct in relationships there's always a giver and a taker she says which i think is a good flirt so why don't you want me to take you i know he says

SPEAKER_00 22:46

i know cute chapel round in the background

SPEAKER_01 22:48

all this stuff is nothing make me dig deep make me sacrifice make me work hard for it difficult okay which is gross in its own way but then his example is make me go dancing i don't like dancing that's not like

SPEAKER_00 23:05

well we don't know how much he hates dancing that's true

SPEAKER_01 23:08

but it just felt so all over the map with like it's evolutionary psych you have to make me dig deep you gotta make me do something make me work for it make me work for it she like sort of rolls her eyes which i agree with when she's like fine let's go dance then Okay, at this point, he pulls her back. He makes her sit down. He kisses her. He says, make me be a gentleman, too. He's a little brat.

SPEAKER_00 23:34

You old so-and-so. Matt Camden. He's a brat. I know. Make me be a gentleman? I was like, okay, daddy.

SPEAKER_01 23:42

I don't even use that word. I take it as like he wants her to sort of dominate him, and he just wants to be bratty about it.

SPEAKER_00 23:50

Yeah, which I love.

SPEAKER_01 23:52

Which I think could be great for him, but is not necessarily fitting in with his previous Evo psych rant.

SPEAKER_00 23:58

I know. I

SPEAKER_01 23:59

know. In any case, they go dancing. They have a wonderful evening together. We see them later in the car. They're like making out. They're having a great time. They're saying we had so much fun. They sort of hint at the possibility of doing something more. Well, because she pauses. She pauses. And she says, actually, I don't really want to do anything else right now. Yes, Connie. He says, I'm man enough to hear the word no. Which is... Complicated. Complicated. I love the respect.

SPEAKER_00 24:29

Yeah. At the base of it, I love the respect. Listen, it's the 90s. I think that was probably the best we could ask for on TV about a message of a man getting a no when he's, you know, curious about more.

SPEAKER_01 24:43

For young men watching the show, it models you just accept the no. Right. And it's not threatening.

SPEAKER_00 24:49

Even if we're like gendering the hell out of it, being like, I'm a real man so I can hear no.

SPEAKER_01 24:53

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 24:54

Well, Whatever. Fine.

SPEAKER_01 24:55

Well, and then she sort of opens up. Well, you know, let's take a break and we can see how we're both feeling later. Yes. We fade to black and don't see what else

SPEAKER_00 25:03

happens. No, because he says, he says, I've got a better idea. Oh, that's right.

SPEAKER_01 25:07

That's right. They go to.

SPEAKER_00 25:08

They get in the car and fade to black.

SPEAKER_01 25:10

We don't know what happens in between. They do later show up at Connie's house and talk to her dad a little bit. And then he comes home.

SPEAKER_00 25:17

Okay. This is the prude in me, I guess. But when he kissed her in front of her dad. I was shocked. On the mouth.

SPEAKER_01 25:24

I was shocked. For a dad who's like, I... My precious little daughter. My precious little daughter. Men only want one thing. Don't trust them. I'm setting you up with the pastor's son because he's safe.

SPEAKER_00 25:34

And then he...

SPEAKER_01 25:35

Just right in front of him.

SPEAKER_00 25:36

Irish setter locks in here. Walks in. Plants one on her. Dad didn't say a damn thing. In fact, she makes him tea because women live to serve men.

SPEAKER_01 25:45

And finally they're going to talk.

SPEAKER_00 25:47

I'll tell you all about it, Dad. Really? Really? How did he know the high school goss? This is... that

SPEAKER_01 25:54

I struggle with he is worrying yeah okay I do want to touch on too what is going on in the Camden family home as we're waiting for Matt to come home between Annie and Eric

SPEAKER_00 26:08

well because yeah Annie being Mrs. Camden Eric being Mr. Camden um because they are being hype out of their minds waiting for their kid to come from prom because they're like we trust you but we actually don't trust you so

SPEAKER_01 26:21

yeah so they have they have this whole thing that happens with the other kids that Maybe we'll get into in a bonus episode. But at the end of the evening, they're having some dessert.

SPEAKER_00 26:30

Oh, wait. Well, we do have to say this piece.

SPEAKER_01 26:32

Okay. Say this piece.

SPEAKER_00 26:33

Is that the two boys that the sisters are excited to be like, who are Kyle and Casey? Oh, my God. I'm so excited for these dates. And it's 11-year-old twin brothers who are friends of Simon. Yes. So they weren't lying when they said, I'm a friend of your brothers. They just assumed it was Matt. So now the whole family is watching them on a double date with twin 11-year-olds. year olds and just kind of smirking the whole time

SPEAKER_01 26:57

well and I will say too something worrying the girls kind of jump up they try to take a chance to get out of the living room with their mother who sort of is like no your punishment is you have to stay with them right and entertainment and entertain them and that felt gross

SPEAKER_00 27:11

right

SPEAKER_01 27:12

I didn't like that at all

SPEAKER_00 27:13

like you're not teaching you're not saying like oh it's okay to like I get the lesson of like you're so desperate to date that you're just like

SPEAKER_01 27:20

but the way you do that isn't double down that's giving it's like when people say oh I caught you smoking a cigarette, smoke the whole pack.

SPEAKER_00 27:26

Right.

SPEAKER_01 27:27

That's not helpful.

SPEAKER_00 27:30

Right. And these boys clearly like them. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 27:35

They're earnest boys. They're inept.

SPEAKER_00 27:38

These boys only want one thing, listener.

SPEAKER_01 27:39

They're inept, to say the least. But anyway, later in the evening, they're having some ice cream, like passing the time. Okay, at a certain point, Eric, the dad, is on his third bowl of ice cream and Annie tells him, stop. Gaining 10 pounds won't bring Matt home any faster. I

SPEAKER_00 27:57

thought you liked me with a little meat on my bones.

SPEAKER_01 28:00

I

SPEAKER_00 28:00

lied.

SPEAKER_01 28:03

Obligatory 90s fat shaming moment.

SPEAKER_00 28:06

Yeah, legally you have to include a fat shaming moment in every episode of television. The FCC required it if

SPEAKER_01 28:12

you were going to air at prime time in the 90s. Yeah. Which, oh my God, I couldn't believe it.

SPEAKER_00 28:20

Yeah, that stood out to me as well. But also there's like, to spare you details, there is a child's puppet character that is an old flame of Eric Camden's that is coming to their house.

UNKNOWN 28:33

Mm-hmm.

SPEAKER_00 28:33

for who knows what reason, it's like a long story involving Ruthie realizing that this puppet she loves is actually a person. The youngest

SPEAKER_01 28:41

child's crisis of faith is involved with this puppet.

SPEAKER_00 28:44

Yes, because she realizes that there's a human inside her favorite puppet so it's not real. So God's not real. So God's not real because you need to bring in God as well because it is a pastor's

SPEAKER_01 28:53

family. Yeah. And your audio jumped out for you. It did. And it doesn't want to come back.

SPEAKER_00 29:00

Hello? It did. It dropped out and I'm back. Well, And you know what? Blasphemer. That's probably why. That's why you gotta smoke. I said God ain't real. Consider yourself smoke. Veronica. Thank you. It's been taken under advisement by many. They're in this weird dynamic while they're waiting for Matt where she's feeling threatened by the puppet woman.

SPEAKER_01 29:23

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 29:24

Who speaks in a baby voice the entire time.

SPEAKER_01 29:26

Yeah. Yeah. You know, bonus episode for sure because that's just there's a lot to get into. The little girl brings up sort of Pascal's wager when it comes to faith. It gets wild.

SPEAKER_00 29:40

Yeah, she goes deep. Ruthie is my favorite, I think. Credit to Ruthie. It's a very bizarre experience. And also this very intense belief that to be happily in a monogamous relationship with somebody means that you have to pretend they never dated anyone before you in order to not be threatened. So, there Where's that?

SPEAKER_01 30:04

Yeah, ultimate monogamy. A timeless, monogamous choice to have only ever had one partner.

SPEAKER_00 30:10

Yeah,

SPEAKER_01 30:10

absolutely. Impossible. Impossible. All

SPEAKER_00 30:13

right, wrap us up.

SPEAKER_01 30:15

What happens? Wrap us up? I mean, so Matt comes home. Annie and Eric are asleep on the couch, but they wake up when he turns off the light to try and tuck them in. He says he had a nice time, and Connie's a really nice girl, and he actually thanks his parents for everything.

SPEAKER_00 30:28

Everything.

SPEAKER_01 30:29

Annie and Eric are like, oh, my God, we have to know what happened. Annie says no. No, no, no. Let's wait till tomorrow. They realize it's midnight. They run up the stairs after

SPEAKER_00 30:38

him. Freeze frame. Freeze frame. It's the 90s. Okay, let's talk. Let's talk what comes next. Let's write the epilogue. Let's write the happy ending. What are your wishes for the Camden family in this moment? I

SPEAKER_01 30:50

mean, I wish that they would interrogate what they think a harlot is and the rampant slut shaming within their household because Connie was a very nice girl. Everyone had a great time. Sluts can be nice girls. interacting with her she was very nice Matt had a nice time he seems to really like her and I hope that they can get over their issues because I kind of hope Matt and Connie continue seeing each other at least for a while

SPEAKER_00 31:15

yeah I'm into the Matt and Connie dynamic and I hope if anything their continued relationship like you know maybe we create some sex positive frameworks maybe we start to realize that like oh it's okay for women to want sex for pleasure you know yeah Maybe that's a thing. Wild idea. Weird. Yeah. That being a slut ain't all bad.

SPEAKER_01 31:40

It's fun, dude.

SPEAKER_00 31:41

Right. Now, the way they pitch it is very reductive. That she's only being slutty, quote unquote, because she wants men to like her. And it's more about giving them what they want. And she is not receiving any sort of pleasure in return.

SPEAKER_01 31:56

No return on investment.

SPEAKER_00 31:57

No ROI there. So, you know, I want her to be a slut and get her some. For her. For her. a slut for her

SPEAKER_01 32:04

yeah

SPEAKER_00 32:05

yeah that's my hope I hope that Mrs. Camden gets a fucking thank you card seriously we in the course of this episode see this woman navigate five different crises between children we see her make a dress in three hours with zero support from the person asking her to do it correct we see her instruct Mr. Camden on how to have a conversation with his son when I don't know maybe that's his job hmm As a pastor is to have conversations with people all day long. We see her be expected to have made dinner by Simon. And clean it up. And clean it up.

SPEAKER_01 32:44

She makes a lasagna from scratch. Because it's Ruthie's favorite. After she's trying desperately to get these damn tickets to the little puppet show for Ruthie.

SPEAKER_00 32:52

And then the puppet herself shows up. And Mr. Camden says, there's always room for one more, right?

SPEAKER_01 32:57

What's one more? When you're hand making a lasagna.

SPEAKER_00 33:00

You haven't.

SPEAKER_01 33:01

I could have killed him.

SPEAKER_00 33:02

You haven't. Yeah, I haven't. haven't even checked in with you and I haven't made any moves to help so Mrs. Camden is the backbone of the family obviously and no one and that's her job apparently according to them so delightful my wish for her is a break and a mama sans I want her to have her own I want her to get her groove back agree I want to see this monkey video and see why it was such a thing I know so that's my wish for her Where

SPEAKER_01 33:33

can the people find us, Veronica?

SPEAKER_00 33:35

They can find us on the internet, Blair. In

SPEAKER_01 33:38

their

SPEAKER_00 33:38

DMs. While this is a personal,

SPEAKER_01 33:41

please listen to our podcast and give us feedback podcast.

SPEAKER_00 33:43

Yes. This is a trial podcast. We want your feedback, dear listener, on if we are funny enough to keep making these. That's the real question. Do we thread the needle between hilarity and insight?

SPEAKER_01 33:59

Yeah. Give us your thoughts.

SPEAKER_00 34:01

Thank you for listening. And we... Can't wait to hear what you think. Bye-bye. Catch you next time. Thank you for listening to our very first episode of Mom's Not Home Till 6. We hope that you enjoyed and can't wait to hear your feedback. Give us a ring and make sure you switch the TV channel back to something appropriate. Catch you next time.