Pride & Prejudice has us stretching our hands with lust!

Yes, the 2005 movie version. Of course! Join Blair + Veronica as they discover just how syrupy sweet they like their movie endings. 

Which ending do you prefer? Share in the comments!

Transcript

SPEAKER_01 0:02

Hey you! Come on over. Mom's not home till six, and we're exploring the TV and movies that made you turn down the volume so your parents wouldn't hear. We're going to build our intimacy literacy and dig into all the weird messages we took from pop culture about sex, relationships, and ourselves. Because, let's be honest, this was all the sex ed we got. Today, I see in the distance walking out of the mist with an unbuttoned peasant shirt, none other than relationship and sex therapist specializing in queer relationships, but really, come on, all relationships. Blair Somerville.

SPEAKER_03 0:45

I love when I get my earhorn. That's how I know it's gonna be a good day. Yeah. And I'm joined by one of the most accomplished women that I know. Veronica Dress. She's a sexuality educator, coach, and intimacy director for stage and screen. How are you doing today, Veronica?

SPEAKER_01 1:03

I am well. I am I'm amazed that you should know one such a person, if that's your definition of accomplishment, you know?

SPEAKER_03 1:10

It is a high bar. You're setting a very high bar for accomplished women.

SPEAKER_01 1:14

Thank you so much. I am very excited about today's conversation. This piece of literature, and more specifically, this movie.

SPEAKER_03 1:23

From 2005.

SPEAKER_01 1:25

From 2005, very specifically, has become a big part of my romantic relationship with my partner. And I never expected it because honestly, once again, English lit class didn't like this one, but I've come across it.

SPEAKER_03 1:41

Okay, wait. So did you read Pride and Prejudice in your English?

SPEAKER_01 1:44

I watched the mini-series in high school for Honors English.

unknown 1:47

Oh, okay.

SPEAKER_03 1:48

So you saw the mini-series.

SPEAKER_01 1:50

I saw the mini-series and I saw it over a weekend before the test because I didn't feel like reading it. This is making me sound like I never did my homework. I did my homework and I did read a lot of the books required for high school, but I started reading it and was bored. And then I found out that the mini-series, because it's longer, kind of goes scene by scene, following along with the book and uses a lot of the dialogue. So I said, All right, that seems good enough for me. So that's my experience up until recent years with Pride and Prejudice, which it is, it has deepened. The breadth and the depth have deepened in the last year.

SPEAKER_03 2:31

So you didn't watch you watched the miniseries on your own because you found I can just watch this instead of reading the book. They didn't show it to you in school. Correct. Okay, interesting. I did not, I was never assigned to read Pride and Prejudice. We did watch Pride and Prejudice 2005 in my high school class.

SPEAKER_01 2:50

Really?

SPEAKER_03 2:51

Yes. Instead of reading it. Because we read. What did we read? We read Jane Eyre. Jane Eyre, which is actually not by Jane Austen, but is a similar genre.

SPEAKER_01 3:06

That's by a Bronte.

SPEAKER_03 3:07

Yes. Correct. One of the Bronte's.

SPEAKER_01 3:10

Okay. So if you, dear listener, are anywhere on the spectrum between watched the movie Tord, watched the miniseries toward, actually read the book, don't worry. We're gonna give you a little quickie right here so you can freshen up that memory before we dive in to the 2005.

SPEAKER_03 3:30

All right, yeah, let's freshen it up because somehow Pride and Prejudice only increased its importance over the years. This particular 2005 movie. So Pride and Prejudice 2005 is a period romance film based on Jane Austen's book, which came out in 19 or sorry, 1813. Uh-huh. Super old as hell. It apparently has some changes from the book. I didn't read the book, but Wikipedia noted that the family dynamics in the Bennett household were different. So maybe you know from the miniseries some of the changes. We'll get into that. During the late 18th century in England, Mr. and Mrs. Bennett and their daughters, Jane, Elizabeth, Mary, Kitty, and Lydia live at Longburn, their rural estate in Hertfordshire. Hertfordshire. Mrs. Bennett, eager to secure suitable marriages for her daughters, is delighted when wealthy bachelor Charles Bingley comes into nearby Netherfield Hall. At an assembly ball, Bingley, his sister Caroline, and his friend Mr. Darcy meet the local society. Bingley and Jane are immediately taken with each other, while Elizabeth instantly dislikes the snobbish Darcy and overhears his dismissive remarks about her. She throws that in his face immediately, and he is embarrassed. Good. Later, visiting the Bingleys, Jane falls ill in a calculated move and must stay to recuperate.

SPEAKER_01 5:01

In her mother's calculated move. Mrs. Bennett. Her mother's very calculated move. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 5:07

She's great. While Elizabeth is visiting Jane at Netherfield, she verbally spars with the snobby Caroline and the aloof Darcy. Jane recovers, and soon after, Mr. Bennett's cousin, Mr. Collins, a pompous clergyman, visits the Bennets. As the closest male relative, Collins is going to inherit Longburn, so there's a lot of tension there. Everything. Yes. You'll get everything. Mr. Collins tells Mrs. Bennett that he intends to propose to Jane, but she says Jane is soon going to be engaged and suggests Elizabeth, whom Collins considers an agreeable alternative.

SPEAKER_00 5:45

The backup option.

SPEAKER_03 5:48

The Bennett sisters also meet the handsome and charming soldier, George Wickham, whose father worked for the Darcy family. He wins Elizabeth's sympathy by telling her that Mr. Darcy denied him his rightful inheritance. Then at the Netherfield Ball, Elizabeth dances with Darcy, though the encounter is strained, it's a little awkward, there's a lot of tension, it's exciting. The next day, Collins proposes to Elizabeth in a bizarre turn, and she firmly rejects him. And her mother is fucking pissed.

SPEAKER_01 6:18

That's one of my favorite things.

SPEAKER_03 6:23

But her dad is super supportive, and he really wants her to stay true to herself. Elizabeth is astonished when her close friend, Charlotte, is fearing spinsterhood. She's 27. She announces her engagement to Mr. Collins. The Bingley party also unexpectedly returns to London. Elizabeth urges Jane to visit their aunt and uncle, the Gardeners, who live in London, hoping she will reconnect with Bingley. Months later, Elizabeth visits Charlotte and Mr. Collins, who reside next to Lady Catherine's estate. DeBerg. Catherine DeBerg. Elizabeth unexpectedly meets Darcy there, who, it turns out, is Lady Catherine's nephew and is visiting with his cousin, Colonel Fitzwilliam. Unaware that Jane is Elizabeth's sister, Fitzwilliam mentions that Darcy recently untangled Bingley from a bad match with an unsuitable family. Distraught, Elizabeth runs away. She's in a very dramatic, like Greek Roman giant column structure. I don't even know what it's meant to be.

SPEAKER_01 7:28

I have questions about is that like an astronomy tower?

SPEAKER_03 7:32

I don't fucking uh somewhere in Mausoleum? I don't fucking know. A pavilion? That's what I picture when people say the pavilion.

SPEAKER_01 7:38

Okay. Sure, it's the pavilion.

SPEAKER_03 7:41

She's out at the pavilion, marble statues, law, giant, giant fucking columns. It's raining. She's met there by Mr. Darcy, who to her amazement proposes marriage, uh, declaring his passionate love despite her inferior rank and family and describing all the reasons he shouldn't be in love with her.

SPEAKER_01 8:01

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 8:02

She is offended. She's angry. She refuses him. She confronts him about separating Jane and Bingley. He says he believed Jane was indifferent to his friend, and he criticizes the other Bennett's occasional social impropriety because they did kind of make fools of themselves at the party. A little. Elizabeth also cites his mistreating Wickham, which he doesn't answer for there, but later gets her a letter because he's angry and heartbroken and wants to defend himself. And he he answers, he tells her that Wickham squandered the money Darcy's father left him and then attempted to seduce Darcy's 15-year-old sister, Georgiana, into eloping to gain her fourth fortune. Gross. Spoiler, that is not something that Wickham outgrows. He does the same. Oh Wickham. Elizabeth returns home, as does Jane. Accompanying the gardeners on a trip to the Peak District. Elizabeth reluctantly tours Pemberley, the Grand Darcy estate in Derbyshire. Der Derb Derbyshire. Jesus.

SPEAKER_01 9:04

She unexpectedly. And open your mouth, Blair. That's the whole thing. Derbyshire.

SPEAKER_03 9:08

Derbyshire. I have to pretend that I'm depressed living in the English countryside and everything's awful, and you can't even bring yourself to open your mouth, and you just say Derbyshire.

SPEAKER_00 9:18

It's too much energy to open my mouth. I'm in Derbyshire.

SPEAKER_03 9:24

She unexpectedly runs into Darcy, who invites her and the gardeners to dine there. Darcy's manner has softened considerably. He impresses the gardeners, and Georgiana shares her brother's flattering reports about Elizabeth. An urgent letter from Jane reveals that Lydia, 15, has run off with Wickham. Darcy leaves abruptly, and Elizabeth returns home, certain that she'll never see Darcy again and feeling like a fool for how she has misjudged him. Her mother fears Lydia's disgrace will ruin her other daughter's chances of good marriages. After a tense waiting period, Mr. Gardner sends news Lydia and Wickham are now married, and the newlyweds return to Longburn. Lydia lets slip to Elizabeth that it was actually Darcy who found them and paid for their wedding, and he also purchased a military commission for Wickham so that they'd be more respectable. Bingley and Darcy return to Netherfield and visit Longburn. Bingley proposes to Jane, who accepts late that night. Lady Catherine arrives to see Elizabeth and demands that she never become engaged to Darcy because she claims Darcy has been engaged to marry Lady Catherine's daughter, who has suffered poor health since infancy. Deeply insulted, Elizabeth orders her to leave. Walking early the next morning, Elizabeth encounters Mr. Darcy, who's also walking across the field in a lingering shot that lasts longer than I think it will every time I watch it. It doesn't last long enough, Blair. It's just very long. He apologizes for his aunt. He professes his continued love for Elizabeth. And Elizabeth, her feelings radically altered, accepts his proposal. She tells her dad the truth of Darcy's actions, and Mr. Bennett gives Elizabeth his consent to marry and is overjoyed that she has found love. We get the final Mrs. Darcy, Mrs. Darcy, Mrs. Darcy scene. And the only kiss of the whole movie. And then that's the end of the movie. They're married. That's all she wrote. Happy. They put their foreheads together and looked like they were gonna kiss, but they didn't actually kiss, I don't think. No, they're very respectable, Veronica. They cannot kiss until they're married.

SPEAKER_01 11:51

Mm-hmm. What a time. Okay.

SPEAKER_03 11:55

What a time.

SPEAKER_01 11:56

Was this your first rewatch since high school of the 2005 film?

SPEAKER_03 12:02

No. So it's not my first rewatch since high school, but I have never I have not been that person who's like adores the movie and regularly rewatches it. I've watched it maybe three, this might have been my third or fourth time watching it.

SPEAKER_01 12:18

Okay.

SPEAKER_03 12:19

I never disliked it, but it has never been like my fave.

SPEAKER_01 12:24

Yeah. What about what do you think it is about Pride and Prejudice more broadly that has kept the romance fantasy and imagination of people since the year 1813?

SPEAKER_03 12:41

That's what's really it really is amazing to me. I was thinking about that a lot because I thought about that. Wow, this movie, this story, has been a thing since 1813 to 2026, and it still translates pretty well. Like it's not like you're watching it and you're thinking, ooh, a lot of this is like didn't age well or feel super gross now. I guess because it is set in its time period, there's a little less, we're a little more forgiving of some of that stuff. Like there's sexism and things, but they they do call attention to it and point it out as sexist. But I don't fucking know because by the end of the movie, I sat there and I said, Okay, I like the whole time I'm rooting for Elizabeth and Mr. Darcy. It's clear that you're like, Yes, I want them to be together. But why? Fucking why? What when I sit there and I kind of think, what would they talk about? Because they're not gonna sit there and talk about how stubborn they both are all day long. You know what I mean? They're not like, oh my god, we have the favorite books that we read, or or we both love this composer, or we both hate playing piano, we both like to travel. I don't fucking know what they have in common to actually talk about when they spend time together, other than Loki being roasting each other all day long. I couldn't tell you, but nonetheless, I'm excited for them and I want them to be together. And they did a really amazing job with relatively little direct conversation between them, almost no physical contact or overt flirting, building a lot of tension that is palpable as a viewer. I don't know how they did it because, like I said, I I don't know what they like about each other.

SPEAKER_01 14:32

It makes me think a lot about both this and the conversations we've been having in our Patreon slumber party for Bridgerton, because it's a similar, not the same exact era, but it's a they they're they're neighbors, neighbor eras, that the expectation and standard for who you marry is so low that even having chemistry and desire and attraction at all to your potential partner is notable, it sounds like, right? Because marriage, and you know, this still is true for many people, like maybe more implicitly in some cases than explicitly, but marriage is a business transaction, like it is quite literally marrying estates and livelihoods and hoarding family wealth. It is not really about romance. The idea of romance as a part of marriage came much later, and so it's interesting that for both of these shows or movies, the that it is notable that they are prioritizing romance and attraction at all.

SPEAKER_03 15:51

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 15:52

We don't have the comparison of the Bennett's with other families. I guess maybe Charlotte, we do. We have like the only other comparison we have of like what the norm is is Charlotte, who is very explicit that she has no money, no prospects. She's 27, she's already a burden to her parents and she's scared. Which fun fact that line is not this very famous line, right? Like that's on like people's 27th birthday cakes still, which is so silly to me. It is not in the book. And I know I only learned this recently, but I saw a thing on the interwebs of like fun facts about the 2005 movie or like behind the scene things that the director ended up meeting up with Emma Thompson because she had done sense and sensibility recently, or maybe like the year before. And since this is like a similar adaptation journey, he met with her because some of the scenes were feeling really stunted or just not working. And she was like, You sit on this bench and you write down what I say, and I'm just gonna improv some scenes. And so Emma Thompson, beloved Emma Thompson, improved that scene and that line and is like an uncredited writer in the film. Yeah, so that's all we we have her to thank. Thank goodness.

SPEAKER_03 17:17

That just came off the dome for her.

SPEAKER_01 17:19

I know. Well, she's she's a goddess, she knows what she's doing.

SPEAKER_03 17:23

I know. Wow. But yeah, I'm I'm interested to see what you think about this because I also relatedly just watched Heated Rivalry for the first time. So good. You gotta see it if you haven't seen it. Have you seen it, Veronica? First of all, yes, I've seen it. Have I seen it? Okay, good. Okay, but this there's something so appealing to us about this line between like, I don't like you, but it turns out my passionate frustration with you was love all along. Why do we like that so much? Why why is everyone like, yes?

SPEAKER_02 18:04

I don't know.

SPEAKER_01 18:06

Well, okay, uh my brain goes to several places at the time that we're recording this. A lot of conversation is happening in the media in the you know, year of our Audre Lord 2026. There's a lot of conversation happening about CNN's recent reveal of this rape academy, right? That is like 62 million views or visits in the month of February, right? The pervasiveness of rape culture and how it relates to like how pervasive it is, right? And so it it is hard for me to think about this trope, both in film but also in life, about bullying or mistreatment or hatred, hostility, hostility as misdirected expressions of love and desire. I think it is really complicated. I understand the if the narrative that we get from Elizabeth is that they're so similar, which is true when she says it, right? That they're like they are both really stubborn, they're both very loyal, they're both very kind of bullheaded, opinionated, opinionated, care about their people. And it happens that in the situations they have found themselves in, that has made that has put them at odds with one another. And perhaps if they had met in different circumstances, that wouldn't have it wouldn't have been an enemies situation. I understand when we as people are annoyed by folks that are similar to us in ways that we maybe don't love about ourselves, right? Like the frustr the people who frustrate me most often have qualities that I am frustrated I possess. That I understand. However, the idea that it is that the intensity of hostility can translate equally to be a intensity of love and passion is something that I don't know that I it's a fun fantasy, I think.

SPEAKER_03 20:22

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 20:23

Like it's it's a cool daydream, but I think it is rooted. Um I mean, I'm sure that there are there are much smarter people than I who have probably talked at ad nauseum about this, but it makes me I'm wary of it because it just makes me think of the bully on the playground being like, oh, he pulled your pigtails because he likes you.

SPEAKER_03 20:44

I literally thought of that exact kind of saying, and I thought it was so remarkable the way that this, and I suppose even heated rivalry to some extent, are able to accomplish like they create that tension and that disagreement and frustration with each other without necessarily crossing over into straight-up bullying. There are plenty of like romance media shows, movies, whatever, that do go into the like totally toxic, like I don't know, pick-up artist negging kind of bullshit that is really, really awful. And I thought it was a little refreshing to see that type of dynamic that is still like all there's ultimately some degree of respect still between them. They don't go full into like pulling each other's pigtails or whatever.

SPEAKER_01 21:37

Yes. The closest we get to Neggin, I think, is the scene where she runs away to the solarium. I'm just gonna make up words for whatever this like Grecian Ooh, I like that. This Grecian structure that they're outside of they're like on the whatever, their Grecian dome on the property that they're in.

SPEAKER_03 22:00

Yep.

SPEAKER_01 22:01

That he is proposing marriage while insulting her. Like that I see. And what feels true in in this movie, in this book, is the wider I I did not when I first started reading this book in high school, A, I was predisposed to dislike it because I was told that I was supposed to like it. I don't like when people tell me what to do, right? I absolutely. So that's from the jump. But also because it's supposed to be like, oh, Mr. Darcy. And I remember reading it and feeling the same way I felt about the office season one, where I was like, why are we not unionizing and getting Steve Corell fired? Like I just could not get, I could not find the endearment. However, in watching the movie and the portrayal by this actor, is it Matthew McFadden? I think is his name. I might be making that up. He he plays so clearly that Darcy is just an incredibly socially awkward man who has such social anxiety. He is nervous all the time. He and he says, like, I don't speak easily with people I don't know well. Like it is really hard for me to be myself around people who are new. And it makes me think of Eloise and Bridgerton. This, like, I it is not that he is a mean person or a bad person, it is that he is divergent from society structure, which we see today for so many folks of many different identities and communities, but the structure of their life with the balls and the carriages and the order of operations recording was so rigid and very extrovert focused or like reliant upon extroversion or wealth. And I think at this point his wealth has been able to carry him to a certain extent and give him like a free pass to appear as an asshole, even though I don't think he is. I think he's just a really nervous guy who's can't use his words.

SPEAKER_03 24:20

That is important, I think, that even when he is being insulting to her, to her face, or indirectly, you never get the sense that he's trying to manipulate her. Like he's not he it really feels like he's sort of stumbling into saying these things a lot of the time. Like it's just he finds it coming out of his mouth because to him it's a fact. And he doesn't know any other way to put it. And it it does it's true, so it's important to say it. Yeah. And it's like and I think that is it is important too that there's been a lot of discussion about Mr. Darcy as a neurodivergent character, especially as we've understood a lot more about neurodivergence, and I think I certainly didn't have that in high school. I didn't know that was not part of the city. I was like, Why are we into him? He's just so rude. I don't know why we care about this. And I feel like there's so many people who will portray this type of character as being a huge asshole and just saying, Well, I just say it like it is. I'm just playing devil's advocate. I'm just playing I'm just asking questions. And I was like, No, you're fucking not. You're being an asshole and you know you know it, and you're trying to create a certain response in the person you're talking to. But it it is very different for him because he's he's not trying to create any particular response. He's just saying his thoughts and what he observes to be true and trying to express his feelings in a very awkward and anxious way. That is super endearing, I think.

SPEAKER_01 25:51

Yeah, I think it was in the right hands with this actor for sure. That it even the I don't know that it was an intentional, I don't I don't know this actor's work incredibly well. I don't know his cadence of speech in other things, but so I don't know if it was intentional that Darcy has a bit of a stutter in different moments, or if you know, if that actor just happens to have a stutter, but that endeared me to him when it appeared as well, when he's when he says, I love you, and can can barely get the words out, I think. Yes, I think that they both play these characters in a way that is really endearing. And the the things that I do take umbrage with for Darcy and the ins, like, I don't want to give him a free pass that, like, oh, he didn't know he was being mean for all of it, because from the j like they get to this ball, right? They get to this ball, everyone stops and stares. I think we're supposed to think that East Derbyshire or wherever they are, wherever Longbourne is, that it's a pretty rural community outside of London. Like it's not, it is not unfe not feasible to get into London. People do, but it's like a trip. And so the way he interacts with it feels like what is this po dunk fucking town I'm in? Why are we here?

SPEAKER_03 27:17

Snobby assumes, he is very snobby. Bingley, whoever she is, cat what was her name, Catherine? She's so rude. Yes, Caroline Bingley. Caroline, yes, she's so rude the whole thing.

SPEAKER_01 27:27

She's cunty, but in a way that's borderline. Are you a cunt or are you cunty? She walks that line really well.

SPEAKER_03 27:33

She really, she does. She does.

SPEAKER_01 27:35

Yeah. Because there's this whole thing he says about how none of the women there are e are barely tolerable.

SPEAKER_03 27:43

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 27:45

And he couldn't tolerate dancing with any of them, which we love seeing Kira Knightley as Elizabeth throw that in his face that she's heard him say that.

SPEAKER_02 27:55

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 27:56

And she really pushes him about like, well, you're not even gonna dance with anybody. Like, I I think what I do enjoy about their relationship is the wit, is the sparring. There is an excitement to their bantering, and it is not I don't think it is designed to be flirting. However, it does fall to me under a category of flirting, which is like a like a sparring of wit. Like it isn't it is a way it's a way of like intellectual, intellectual banter and throwing the ball back and forth, the energy ball of what their dynamic could be back and forth. And I think that that is really exciting to see and is absolutely a way that people flirt and develop tension. And I think that in lieu of any physical contact or even noticing their own romantic feelings for each other or desire for each other, that is what we get in its place. And that tension when when conveyed with the appropriate intensity is really fun to watch.

SPEAKER_03 29:12

Yeah, and you know, okay, so I think I'm I'm developing a theory about what is so enduringly appealing about this film as like a romantic fantasy for viewers to have. And I think some of it is maybe the idea that by being myself aggressively and unapologetically the way Kira Knightley is, even if I have to have a little bit of conflict with someone that will make them respect me, they will see me for who I really am, and they can't help but fall in love with me, even if they didn't like me at first, because I committed to staying true to who I am the whole time. And also, I'll get to live in obscene, fabulous wealth for the rest of my life.

SPEAKER_01 29:56

Right. That's your reward for your authenticity. Yeah. If only. God, I'd be so wealthy.

SPEAKER_03 30:01

God, I know.

SPEAKER_01 30:02

There's an element of integrity for both of them that is really important, I think, as a value that they're exploring to together, whether or not they realize it, right? Integrity and loyalty and authenticity and pursuing ethical relationships in friendship, in family, within the constraints of the time seems to be really important to both of them. It just happens to be what they are fighting for is at odds with the other one.

SPEAKER_03 30:33

Yeah. Which can we talk a little bit about Mr. and Mrs. Bennett?

SPEAKER_01 30:38

I would love to. Okay.

SPEAKER_03 30:41

I think when I was young and I watched this movie, I don't think I fully understood that she was their mom. I thought she was like their house servant or something, like their maid, their governess.

SPEAKER_01 30:52

She has a very like energy that you usually see portrayed like in in nannies or governesses. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 31:01

And I would so the there, I don't know. What did you think of the relationship between Mr. and Mrs. Bennett and how they sort of view their children?

SPEAKER_01 31:11

They are very much in the trope of opposites attract, I think, that we see also in media a lot, which is like really charismatic, over-the-top wife, and very quiet, introverted husband, I think. I'm trying to think of other places where we see that trope, but I feel like we see it a lot in sitcoms too, where it's like, oh, she's larger than life, and he's like the stable logical one, which, you know, is just a caricature of those gendered expectations of like feeling versus thinking, which, you know, there it is. I am fascinated by there's a line when Darcy is a proposing to Elizabeth, which turns into an argument because he's like, I'm just saying the truth, and she sweetie, and she is like, Yeah, and your truth sucks, and it has really impactful repercussions and is offending my family, who I love really dearly, because one of the complaints about why Jane was unsuitable for his bestie was that your family is in not so many words, like your family's kind of there, they're there's impropriety that they are not proper. They are kind of trash, they're trashy or like gauche or yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 32:39

Yeah, he says like your mom embarrassed herself at the party getting drunk and talking about what a favorable marriage Jane and Mr. Bingham.

SPEAKER_01 32:47

And your sister and your little sisters are one out in society before all of you are married off. They're also like so quote unquote boy crazy about all of these little horn dogs, about all of these officers that are in town. And he says, and even your father in some occasions, which I always thought was a really interesting line in the film. I don't know if it's in the book, because it I don't think we see that with Mr. Bennett. Maybe it was improper for him to go and call on the Bingleys when they first arrived to town without an invitation. Maybe that was it. Or maybe it's the fact that he does take such a back seat while Mrs. Bennett embarrasses herself, right? If we're to think about this structure of romance, or not romance, the structure of marriage, as like man is the head of the house and the woman is here to raise the children and support his ego and his goals, business, whatever. And so I could see that. I I do wonder. He, Mr. Bennett, is very laid back and is always in his study and like is so loving to his daughters and so tickled by the family dynamic. Like it is no doubt a deeply loving family. She definitely runs the show when it comes to this era of the girls getting married. But I am curious, and I remember turning to my partner while watching it, and they are one of those people who loves pride and prejudice. They they introduce me to the movie. Like it's it's very near and dear to them. I was like, what is his gig? Like it's I think we're supposed to believe that they are high enough in society that they can't, they are perfectly capable of keeping a cook, right? That they have some household help. It seems like they have land that gets tended to, but I don't know, but they are not wealthy in the way that the Bingleys and Darcy are wealthy. So like they have, he's not a tradesman, but like, is it their estate has cattle and pigs and farming and whatnot? I can't figure out their level of financial security and whether or not Mr. Bennett just lounging around all the time is something we're supposed to be chill with or something that's a red flag for us as the viewer. I can't figure it out.

SPEAKER_03 35:16

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 35:16

Do you know?

SPEAKER_03 35:17

Yeah, it's a good point. I'm not sure. That is a good point. I guess because he's a he has like a study where he is doing something with papers. He's shuffling papers around, keeping some kind of records, reading books.

SPEAKER_01 35:27

I'm I have papers.

SPEAKER_03 35:29

I have papers too. I shuffle papers. I don't know. I don't know what they're because they portray it as if they're like sort of in trouble, but some of their trouble seems to be far off in that it's just that none of the girls. They only have daughters.

SPEAKER_01 35:43

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 35:44

So then they don't have any secure claim to their home. But I also thought it was weird, like, for a lot of the movie, I agree, like, it's mainly that they're they're almost just doing living totally separate lives. And like they call each other Mr. and Mrs. Bennett. They don't even call each other their first names. But then we have this one scene, I forget how exactly it situates itself in the movie, but they're like showing us different people's bedrooms and like what they're doing in the Bennett household, getting ready for bed. And we see him and Mrs. Bennett like cuddling together in their bed, talking about like how happy they are for their kids, and they're like looking forward to Jane and that she's doing well and that she and Charles are gonna be like struggling and giggling better and having a good yes, it's like so cute. And I was like, wow, okay, so day it during the daytime they like barely talk, or if they do, they're kind kind of like I guess Elizabeth is drawn to making fun of each other a little bit and only calling each other Mr. and Mrs. Bennett, but then they're snuggling up and having a great little time. I thought that was really interesting.

SPEAKER_01 36:52

We don't get a clear idea of what like I think i I'm I hate that I keep referencing Bridgerton, but I feel like we're kind of watching these so close together, it's hard not to compare and contrast. That we get a very clear message about Lady Bridgerton and her late husband about how in love they were, and that that is kind of the goal of marriage for all of the Bridgerton kids. Here, I think what I can say with certainty in the messages or the the story we get about Mr. and Mrs. Bennett is that they deeply love each other. Like that there's no question that they love each other. To me, it just seems that their version of love and intimacy is very, and I guess maybe this is similar to Elizabeth and Darcy, that it is kind of picking at each other, or that kind of like chuckle and an eye roll when their little idiosyncrasies come out, right? When she says, Oh, Mrs. Bennett's always talking about her nerves. My nerves are pride, and she's so loud about how much anxiety she has and how it's hard for her to talk, even though that's all she does is talk. Yeah. And he's like, My dear, I have the utmost respect for your nerves. They've been my constant companion all of these years. Yeah. Like there's there's a sweet picking at each other that I don't think moves to a place of mean. Uh yet again, like I don't think it moves to a place of mean, but it does feel as though either they were so far ahead of their time that he's like, she's her own woman. She's gonna do what she's gonna do. I'm here to vibe. Here we are. Or she's here to vibe, or that their values are at odds, and she's like hyper, it seems like she's hyper fixated on securing a future for her children and herself because she's like, dude, you're gonna die before me. What am I supposed to do? I don't want to be out on the street, and is like really not graceful or proper about her intense focus on this.

SPEAKER_03 38:57

But and I guess another like a big difference between Bridgerton and Pride and Prejudice is that Pride and Prejudice ultimately is written more or less contemporaneously by Jane Austen. Like she's writing about the time period she's in, like criticizing and pointing out some of these social issues with how marriage goes and like how people treat each other in the different ways that relationships can look. And Bridgerton is a more modern fantasy projecting some current stuff onto this time period and using the time period to explore more modern ideas about relationships.

SPEAKER_01 39:35

Mm-hmm. Yeah, there's and we know that it was that Pride and Prejudice was written as satire, like satirically, of the time that she was in. Whereas I yeah, we the lens of the people writing Bridgerton are modern lenses.

unknown 39:54

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 39:54

Yeah. I I wonder a lot about the moment where Mr. Well, okay. So we have Darcy and Elizabeth who are sparring this whole time and think they hate each other. Both are fiercely loyal to their besties slash sister in Elizabeth's case, which is Jane, who is the, you know, beautiful girl next door character. She's, I mean, it's Rosamond Pike, she's blonde, she's sweet, she just giggles to herself. And Bingley is like a Regency era version of a golden retriever. He's just like a happy guy with the most floppy, poofy hair I've ever seen. And they're both just cheesing around each other the whole time, but they both are so nervous about the other one's feelings that they have talked themselves out of the other person's interest. Yeah. And a lot of the things that Darcy and Elizabeth argue about is like, he's like, I don't think your sister's really that into him. And I saw how into her he was, and I didn't want him to get hurt. And also your family's messy and kind of classless. And she's like, she barely tells me how she feels. Like, that's just she's just shy. That's just how she is. And we are rooting for Darcy and Elizabeth so intensely, almost because of the outspoken and opinionated nature of the two of them, that they both are just like bulls in a china shop in their own way. Yeah. Compared to Bingley and Jane, who I think thrive more in society that in the society they're living in, because of those kind of like sweet, docile, kind, you know, cherubic qualities they have. But I don't know that I am really not that I'm not rooting for them, but like I don't really care about them. Is that bad?

SPEAKER_03 41:59

I mean, it's an uncomplicated thing. They're both into each other. And they're both, you know, doing a very sweet, innocent, uncomplicated courtship. They're going about it exactly how you're supposed to, in a pretty straight line, until Darcy intervenes.

unknown 42:18

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 42:19

So it's just not interesting. There's not a lot of dramatic tension there.

SPEAKER_01 42:23

True. Until there, this movie does such a lovely job of depicting awkward attempts at communication.

SPEAKER_03 42:33

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 42:33

Where in in several different scenes, we have both Darcy storming into Elizabeth when she's staying with Charlotte and Mr. Collins at Lady De at Lady DeBerg's estate. And we also have where Darcy and Bingley come together and go to finally propose to Jane, where they all walk in and then or it's all this idea of like, now what? Okay, I'm in the room. And now what do I say? What do I say? And in both instances, it's like a two-minute conversation where they're like, okay, bye, and then leave. And everyone's like, what the fuck was that? Like, what was this interaction? And we get to see this really sweet, like, it's so cute. The role play that Darcy and Bingley do out by the lake after their first interaction. So, like, they're he's like, I'm going in, I'm gonna propose to Jane. And then as soon as he gets in there, Mrs. Bennett won't stop talking because that's how her anxiety shows up. And they're like, I didn't expect that to happen, so I just left. And then they're practicing for how he's gonna go back in. And Darcy is playing Jane, which is so cute. It's the sweetest thing.

SPEAKER_03 43:53

I like that.

SPEAKER_01 43:54

I love that it's a movie that is a shout out to the anxious lovers amongst us.

SPEAKER_03 44:00

Yeah, it's like maybe that's also part of what's so enduring about it is all of us have felt so nervous. Like what even if I'm relatively certain of this person's response, I'm so nervous of what the fuck I'm gonna say or how I how do you start that conversation? Or I find myself starting it and then sort of stumbling into saying the wrong thing, and now I don't know what to do, and I can't walk it back because I I said it.

SPEAKER_01 44:25

Yeah. So and it's a real testament to revisiting, you know. I remember being as a what when I did read a part of this, I was like, they're just in a carriage the whole goddamn time visiting each other. I went here and we talked. I went there and we talked. We're always in a carriage. But what it does offer is an example of coming back to the conversation. Like they have their panic out at the lake where they role play how it's gonna go, and then they ring, they go back and they ring the door a second time. And the same is the whole year that has passed between Darcy's solarium proposal and him walking in the mist.

SPEAKER_03 45:07

Yeah, the dramatic mist walk. Yeah, right.

SPEAKER_01 45:09

That's an entire year that passes where he's like, if you still feel the same way, I will never bring this up again. But I want to talk about this. And he tries to talk to her. I mean, he goes to Lady De Berg's because he knows she's there and is trying, they keep trying to put themselves in situations, or at least he does really actively put himself in situations where they can be around each other and maybe try again. And I I love the like radical commitment to trying again. Not in a I won't take no for an answer kind of way, but in a I feel like we keep missing each other, and neither of us is really understanding the other one. But it's not, it's not from like it's not because of who we really are, it's because of these circumstantial things that are in the way.

SPEAKER_03 46:00

Yeah. It's just because of anxiety. And okay, so related, we gotta talk about the hand. Everybody loves the hand. We have to there's two important hands in media. There's this hand and there's the Arthur hand. And they're both very you know, like just zooms in on his fist. Yeah. They're both very emotive hand moments.

SPEAKER_01 46:24

Ugh, the physical storytelling. Tell tell tell the listeners about the Pride and Prejudice hand.

SPEAKER_03 46:31

Which is by the land. There Elizabeth is leaving the estate with Jane, who's now recovered. She's fine from her illness. They're going home. They're climbing up into their carriage to leave. She's had all these awkward and like sort of hostile, but mostly like, like you said, sort of talking past each other moments with Mr. Darcy.

SPEAKER_01 46:53

And Caroline has been there being like killing girl the whole time.

SPEAKER_03 46:57

Total bitch the whole time. Like just trying to make Elizabeth look bad.

SPEAKER_01 47:01

Trying to just go. Did you walk here? Yeah, I did walk here. I like to be.

SPEAKER_03 47:08

What the fuck is that? Just walking around the room. Anyway. So we see all this stuff happening in the estate. It's time to leave. Bingley is like, he jumps forward to help Jane up into up into the carriage and like get a chance to hold her hand appropriately. And he's very bold about it. And they're both very cute and look and smile at each other. And then Elizabeth is climbing up. And at first it seems like she's like doesn't need help, but sort of from downtown, out of nowhere, Mr. Darcy like gets her hand to help her up into the carriage. And she like looks a little shocked at him and then sits down. And we see him almost immediately turn and leave. And it zooms in on his hand and he like opens it really wide to stretch it.

SPEAKER_01 47:54

Like, my god, I touched her. It's like a little, it's like a cat doing a toe bean stretch.

SPEAKER_03 48:00

Yes, he does a toe bean stretch.

SPEAKER_01 48:02

Right. And it's this incredible embodiment of all of the desire and anxiety and feelings. Yeah, like the tension is like literally being released through this little stretch. And it is so small and so fantastic. So cute.

SPEAKER_03 48:25

Oh that is when I think the viewer it becomes pretty clear pretty quickly that Mr. Darcy has feelings for Elizabeth, even though it's a little bit inexplicable why. She was like mean to him at the party and then he was in love with her. But this is when it's like, okay, yeah, yeah, yeah. I I ship it. They've got to be together because that was too cute. He's so into her. And and they are willing and able to go back and forth with each other.

SPEAKER_01 48:51

I wonder about the when he proposes to her originally, he says, like, you've bewitched me, body and soul. I like, right? Or maybe that's his second proposal at the end.

SPEAKER_03 49:00

No, that's the first one.

SPEAKER_01 49:01

And basically he's like, I've I have been into you since I met you, and I can't stop thinking about you. And it's very sweet to think about him being just like, oh, he was a dick because he was nervous and it it all came out sideways. But it doesn't feel when you look back at those scenes, it doesn't really feel true.

SPEAKER_03 49:28

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 49:29

Like, I don't what about her did you like? You had very few interactions, and when you did see each other, you weren't very nice to each other.

SPEAKER_03 49:38

That's exactly what I'm saying. When we get to this proposal and he's saying, You've bewitched me, body and soul, we're all like, Yes, oh my god, it's so romantic. I love it, but also he's so mean with the tension. And but then when you watch the other scenes, like the first time they meet at the like town party, they're just sort of dicks to each other. The second time, or I guess they meet at the house when she goes to visit for Jane, is it's like the second time they interact. And again, there's this tension, it's like But you know what we do see, we do see that shows us that he is into her when she has walked to see Jane through the mud.

SPEAKER_01 50:20

She walks into the house and the butler announces them. And Caroline is like sitting there like a judgmental little kitty cat, like licking her little claws after brunch. And Darcy stands up immediately as soon as he sees her. And it's the jump up of someone who's like polite, right? Like that's the custom in their in their age, is to like you stand when a lady enters the room. But it's not that, it's like, oh my god. Oh my god, she's like so. We do see that like that early on, he is into her.

SPEAKER_03 50:53

Right. Does he just have like a humiliation kink and he liked that she called him out in front of everybody at the party using his own words?

SPEAKER_01 51:03

Maybe. Maybe what's beyond that is like she sees him enough to call him on what's really going on.

SPEAKER_03 51:11

Got his ass, and he said, Wow, you really understand me, and and you're willing to call me out about it.

SPEAKER_01 51:18

Yeah. Because I think that is like while I don't want to ever like glorify the trope of like he was mean to you because he liked you, and that's what love is. I I do think it is important in relationships to find people who see you in the fullness of you, right? Like the I love your nerves, they've been my companion these 20 some years. Like, I think it is important to find people that you can be your full self with, and also that they're not gonna just uh put a lovely glowy filter on you and not see the full humanity of you. And I wonder in this in this scenario, I feel like they do walk that line in a way that is tricky.

SPEAKER_03 52:09

Yeah. I mean, and some of it is because he didn't say to her face at the party. Everyone sucks here except Jane. She's the only cute one.

SPEAKER_01 52:18

Jane's the only, like, whatever. She's fine.

SPEAKER_03 52:20

She's like fine. She's hot for like a country girl, I guess. Like, he didn't say that to Elizabeth's face. She overheard him being shitty about it to what's why do I keep forgetting her fucking name? Caroline? Caroline. And then later, I guess also he he was embarrassed because he was like, you know what? I was I was being really shitty, actually. That was awful of me to say. Yes. You're right. I think he part of him was also like, you're right. And I like that you corrected me, and you're actually right about it. I learned something about myself because of you.

SPEAKER_01 52:57

Yeah. Yeah. There's just so yeah, there's so much to it because we also have in the background all of this business with Mr. Collins inheriting the estate and Charlotte marrying him because that's the option that's hilarious. I know, he's so good. What excellent boiled potatoes. I hit the window. Which of my cousins do I owe? Compliments.

SPEAKER_03 53:23

He's gently bending his knees all the time because he's like, I don't know, right? Just so like awkward how he holds his body. It's great.

SPEAKER_01 53:32

I know. He's so awkward. And I love when they're dancing and he keeps trying to have a conversation with her, but then they the dance has them separate.

unknown 53:39

Yep.

SPEAKER_03 53:40

Yeah, contrasted with almost right after Mr. Darcy and her dance, and they do the scenes where like there are no background actors.

SPEAKER_01 53:47

It's just that Yes, that that the whole all of the scene, everything goes blank except for the two of them. Even in the tension, even in the conversation, not necessarily being totally pleasant, right? Like there's an intensity there. And I I wonder, I think a thing that we haven't mentioned yet about Darcy that is, I think, a big piece of not just the like the enemies to lovers trope or like the misunderstood misalliance to lovers, is it's not just that, like, oh, he was awkward, he didn't know how to say his feelings. It is also combined with the fact that we see all of these mountains have been moved and it was all for her.

SPEAKER_03 54:32

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 54:33

True. Right? When Lydia runs off with this asshole Wickham, and the family is going to be completely ruined because she's gonna be like, you know, Scarlet Letter, and no one will marry anyone from their family if this goes through, or if they don't get married. Like Darcy leaves and is and seems awkward and rude about it, but meanwhile, he goes to go find Wickham.

SPEAKER_02 54:57

I must leave.

SPEAKER_01 54:58

Basically, pay him off so that he'll marry her and save the family from ruin. Like we find out after the fact that he's been doing all of these things and didn't want the any of them to know. Didn't want anybody to know.

SPEAKER_03 55:12

Yeah. Yeah, that ultimately he becomes or is who knows if he was the whole time, a pretty decent guy. And you know, then in the background we have child predator, Mr. Wickham.

SPEAKER_01 55:25

Yes. There's always this question. I remember once being very drunk with a friend, and we got into a debate about if love was a feeling or an action, and the answer is that it's both, but we were drunk and 20, so that was our conversation. I can't really do one. It feels like this film or Darcy's whole thing is is the dance of love as verb, love as word, right? That it is he doesn't have the words to articulate this feeling, and so he is rougher on the edges, but ultimately shows through action really is really loving. But sometimes that is at odds, right? Like the love he has for his best friend is the more important love for a section of this story.

SPEAKER_03 56:13

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 56:14

That like I love Bingley. Bingley is my number one bro, and I'm going to move us back to London rather than have him like get hitched to this woman who I don't think actually likes him that much, and I don't want him to be heartbroken. Like he make takes big swings for the people he loves, as does Elizabeth. She just has fewer resources to do things to that scale.

SPEAKER_03 56:41

Yeah, that reminds me, I don't know if I was just stupid or not paying attention when I watched this in high school, or a little of both. But I recall, so I was confused about Mrs. Bennett and that she was just their mother, but instead their housekeeper or whatever. And also, any scene where we had Kieran Knightley, so Elizabeth and Jane like in their bed under the covers together. My my young little brain was like, Are they game? Are they supposed to be in this bed together? What's happening? Are they about to have a lesbian affair? And that's when I would be like, sister? Okay. And I'm like leaning in, I'm ready, I'm like, oh, where's this going? Like at first, I don't think I got that it took me a minute to get that they're sisters. That was like I because also they look so different. One of them's blonde and one of them has brown hair. And in my mind, like you had to have the same color hair to be related in a film, to be related, as everyone knows.

SPEAKER_01 57:37

It is, I mean, the intimacy between them as sisters is really stunning, and they do what is also done in practical magic, which is like sisters under the top sheet talking about their feelings, which to be fair, we'll see later in this season, is also what happens in Romeo and Juliet in a really slutty little way. And so it is a intimacy, the same behavior can be different kinds of intimacy when it comes to talking under a top sheet.

unknown 58:06

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 58:07

Mind brain says sisterly love or Romeo plus Juliet love. Yeah. And it all ends like with this. I love that it ends with the two of them walking the grounds anxious out of their minds, and that's where they find each other.

SPEAKER_03 58:25

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 58:25

The after Dame Judy Dench shows up at Elizabeth's house being like, you motherfucking poor ass bitch. I heard that you're engaged to my nephew, you slut. And that Elizabeth is not back down. She's like, get the fuck out of my house, lady.

SPEAKER_03 58:42

No, we're not engaged, but I can't promise anything.

SPEAKER_01 58:45

I can't promise that we won't get engaged. You have insulted me. Get the fuck out of my house. So good. And then they walk toward each other, and it has this really sweet, sweet little interaction. Um what is interesting to me, and I and that this is I I'm curious what this means to you, or what your thoughts are on this as a way to wrap up.

SPEAKER_03 59:13

Ask me the question, I'll give you the answer.

SPEAKER_01 59:16

If you want to. So I found out that in the release of this film, UK audiences or European audiences got one ending and people in the US got another. People in the UK and Europe, or like more people not in the US essentially. I don't know exactly, but people in the not in the US had the movie end in the scene where she talks to her dad in his study and she is crying, and the dad is crying, which I love her relationship with Mr. Bennett. It's so tender.

SPEAKER_03 59:53

She's obviously the favorite.

SPEAKER_01 59:54

Oh my god. She's totally the favorite, and she's crying because she's so in love and is like, I was so wrong. Like he is he's the best. I love him. That's how it ends. But US audiences get the final scene of Miss of Jane, or not Jane, of Elizabeth and Darcy seated out at night outside of his estate, talking about what they'll call each other, and he kisses her and has the whole Mrs. Darcy, Mrs. Darcy, Mrs. Darcy. Because US audiences need more sweetness and closure, apparently, than other audiences do.

unknown 1:00:30

Oh my gosh.

SPEAKER_01 1:00:30

And I'm curious what you think about that. That because to your point, in your wrap-up, that's the only kissing we see in the whole film. Yeah. And so, how would you feel if it ended in the study? Like, what does that say about us in the United States and our expectations of like this syrupy sweet, perhaps, happy ever after?

SPEAKER_03 1:00:52

I can't believe they took it out. Or put it out.

SPEAKER_01 1:00:56

I don't even think it's that they took it out. They put it in at the end for US audiences.

SPEAKER_03 1:01:01

Why didn't they want anyone else to have it?

SPEAKER_01 1:01:03

It's good. So you're the audience that they did it for.

SPEAKER_03 1:01:08

I mean, yeah, I guess I am. You know, I'm American. I'm not proud of it, but I am. And I, yeah, I guess I would have felt like it's not complete. The story, yeah, I would have felt like, okay, what the fuck? Like the end, her dad agrees that they get married. We don't get to see the wedding, we don't get to see nothing else. It does feel like there's not any closure if there's not that scene. It makes me curious how the movie was received because I know in the US it has this whole big like people are you're like you can be a horse girl, you can be a pride and prejudice girl.

SPEAKER_01 1:01:45

That's true. And I think that's a good thing. Is a t-shirt I have seen in the year 2026. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 1:01:52

Oh yeah. I wonder if that's a thing n internationally, and if it's not, is it because I didn't get the Mrs. Darcy and Mrs. Darcy thing?

SPEAKER_01 1:02:01

Well, lovingly, I think Pride and Prejudice had some staying power before the year 2005 when this movie was. Well, yeah, I mean it's good, but does it have like And it's also set in the UK, and so I imagine in the UK people are into it.

SPEAKER_03 1:02:16

No, I don't think so. I think they were deprived and I don't think they can possibly love it the same way because they don't get it. Yeah. Okay. What do you what do you think it means? Why would they put that in just for us and not let anyone else have it? Do you think other people are like, I gotta get my hands on the US version of this DVD so I get the extra ending?

SPEAKER_01 1:02:36

Hmm. What I think there is something to be said for in the United States, we have this. We have been given a lot of media that is, I mean, we talk about it at the end of our episodes, right? That's a happy ever after. We need closure, we need a bow, we need to know that everyone's okay at the end. And while I agree, and there are movies that I'm like, no, that's too sad, I don't want to watch it. There is something to be said for our ability as a people to sit with discomfort and ambiguity and let a more realistic ending be good enough and be treasured, even though it is not kissing on the steps of the palace.

SPEAKER_03 1:03:26

No, I have enough anxiety and uncertainty in my life. I don't need I don't need media to give that to me.

SPEAKER_01 1:03:33

I mean, fine. I mean, I I'll always take a sex scene. You know that.

SPEAKER_03 1:03:37

Uh well, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:03:37

Uh that's yeah, exactly.

SPEAKER_03 1:03:39

That's why we're watching Bridgerton.

SPEAKER_01 1:03:41

Exactly right.

SPEAKER_03 1:03:42

But yeah, I I'm so stunned they don't have that. I'm I am really interested how that changes how the the movie specifically, not just Pride and Prejudice being a thing, but like Pride and Prejudice 2005 being a huge thing for people. How it impacts it, and if people are shocked when they find out.

SPEAKER_01 1:04:01

Well, we'll have to do it, we'll have to do some more research and follow up with our listenership.

SPEAKER_03 1:04:04

Listeners, phone in, email us, leave a comment, let us know which what version did you see? Did you know that this was a a little censoring editing regional difference? And is it better with or without it? Because now I don't know. Because on the one hand, it is it's a little cheesy, it does feel like a little over the top, but it is also ultimately very romantic. It's nice to see them be genuine and just straight up and tender with each other after so much tension and teasing and conflict. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:04:38

You're right.

SPEAKER_03 1:04:39

I need to know. Let the people tell us. Let's send it in.

SPEAKER_01 1:04:43

Everybody vote on it. Well, to that end, Blair. What messages would 2005 Blair be taking away from this film? And what healthy ever afters do you have for any characters? What are your wishes? Ma wish.

SPEAKER_03 1:05:01

2005 Blair is taking away. What if Jane and Elizabeth weren't sisters? Is the main thing I'm taking away, apparently.

SPEAKER_01 1:05:11

Yeah, always taking away queerness, and I love that for you.

SPEAKER_03 1:05:16

I look 2005, I had a lot of questions and not a lot of answers. Okay. Totally. So I'm trying to get it where I can. I think I am taking away that if you are willing to pick fights with strangers at parties, you too can become the 1% and live in a Grecian palace with marble statues of yourself.

SPEAKER_00 1:05:41

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 1:05:42

So that's what I'm taking away from it. And I hope that Mr. Wickham goes to jail. Send him in. He's done. I'm done with him. Although something weirdly reminded me of Orlando Bloom. Looking, I had to go back to the bottom. He did. He had like the blood.

SPEAKER_01 1:06:00

Long hair of Orlando Bloom in Lord of the Rings a little bit, but yeah. I it was beast when he's a human in Beauty and the Beast.

SPEAKER_03 1:06:10

Oh my god, yeah. Whoa! Yes, okay. I think that's mainly what I and also that your hands are very powerful storytelling tools, apparently. What about you?

SPEAKER_01 1:06:23

I love you, honey. I love ya. Well 2005 Veronica was taking away annoyance. I have grown and evolved, and probably like recognizing my own queerness has helped in softening my view of this because I think I felt much more implicated in what was expected of me in a hetero relationship by watching this in 2005 at the age of 15. I felt like it was telling me the story that if a man is shitty to you, it's romantic as because it means he likes you and it means that he just can't express his feelings. And isn't that so romantic that instead of using his words, he goes and he saves your family? Like don't be like, I didn't like that. I think now the message, and like I think it's fair to say that like developmentally, what we're taking changes, and you know, what uh we take in these rewatches is a more nuanced and like quite literally subject matter expert view on the conversation that is worth noting that regardless of what you and I think as 30-something year olds who think about this all the time, like the takes of younger folks actually matter probably more than ours do. I think now it gives me a message of having some grace and compassion for the ways that anxiety can get in the way of expressing ourselves and encourages like curiosity about what is like when we have big feelings about a person, taking some time to like inventory what's going on underneath those big feelings. Sometimes it's like, oh, I am frustrated about these qualities in myself, and that's why they drive me bonkers. And sometimes it's I I think I'm attracted to them, and it feels safer to be angry at them because of X, Y, and Z reason that it couldn't happen. And ultimately, my my healthy ever after is that they find they continue to like not let this be the ever after, that they let this be the beginning of getting to know each other and finding like a really sturdy foundation. I think like the big gesture is given a pedestal in movies that I don't think is ultimately always about uh like always a sturdy foundation to build upon. And so I'm excited, I would be excited to see them start actually building like understanding of shared values and interests and yeah, like a really curious and generative relationship that is based on maybe more than picking at each other.

SPEAKER_03 1:09:27

They should start a book club.

SPEAKER_01 1:09:29

Yes, they start a book club, and his little sister teaches her how to play piano better.

SPEAKER_00 1:09:34

Yeah. And that's what you do. That's what you do.

SPEAKER_03 1:09:39

Well, I'm probably gonna go wander around in a field of mist, waiting for someone to come upon dramatically. What are you gonna do?

SPEAKER_01 1:09:47

Well, I would join you there, but I wear glasses at night, and so I fear I wouldn't be able to see and I'd fall into a bog, which is a risk. So I think instead I'm going to make some excellent boiled potatoes and see if I can't secure a wealthy inheritor that way.

SPEAKER_03 1:10:08

Yeah. Yeah, I gotta find a proper wife per Catherine's Lady Catherine's instructions.

SPEAKER_01 1:10:15

My patroness, I gotta go find a patroness. That's ultimately what's gotta happen. So I'm gonna go do that, and I'll see you. I'll see you when mom's not home.

SPEAKER_03 1:10:23

Yeah, I'll see you next time for Clueless. Should be fine.

SPEAKER_01 1:10:27

Oh my gosh, what a trip. All right, so totally there. Bye-bye. Thank you so much for joining us today on Mom's Not Home Till Six. Pitch us your healthy ever after. Leave us a rating or review on Spotify, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to podcasts. You can find more from us by following me, Veronica, on Instagram at the dot dressrehearsal, or you can support us on Patreon at the DressRearsal Studio. We'd like to extend our gratitude to the queer and trans communities, past and present, who have made it possible to be the people we are today, and to you for listening. Now be sure to go change that TV channel to something appropriate. Catch you next time.