The Golden Years...of A Knight's Tale

Walk naked through the forest writing poems with Chaucer! Joust your way through conflict! Go glamping with a noble lady and yell at a priest!

Whatever you do, we hope you enjoy this conversation about another Heath Ledger banger as much as we did.

Transcript

SPEAKER_02 0:02

Hey, come on over. Mom's not home till six, and we're exploring the TV shows, movies, and pop culture media that made us all turn on the volume so our parents wouldn't hear. We're gonna build our intimacy literacy and dig into all the weird messages we took from pop culture about sex, relationships, and ourselves. Because, let's be honest, this was all the sex ed we got. Today, good people, we are discussing a night's tale. And I'm so excited to introduce the lady with all the best courtly favors, defender of Italian virginity, Veronica Dress von Liechtenstein, sexuality educator, coach, intimacy director for stage, and screen Veronica. Hello.

SPEAKER_01 0:53

Honored to be here. I am joined by this person I just found walking naked around the countryside, spitting bards. Your favorite bard that isn't Shakespeare with a gambling problem. We have Blair Somerville Chaucer, who is a sex and relationship therapist specializing in queer relationships and all of the best kinky shit. Blair, what a film.

SPEAKER_02 1:23

What a film. What a romp.

SPEAKER_01 1:26

Before we get into our quickie, I need to know how are you doing? How's your heart? How's your spirit after watching this film?

SPEAKER_02 1:33

You know, shout out North Carolina Public School Systems. This is another one that I watched in school as part of my education when we were covering. Rolled in.

SPEAKER_01 1:44

Rolled in the big TV.

SPEAKER_02 1:46

Yeah, rolled in the big ass TV. Well, actually, for this one, I think it was up in the corner in the room, and we had a really short English teacher, and she always she would beg someone else to mash that button for me.

SPEAKER_01 1:59

Mash that button.

SPEAKER_02 2:01

Smash that button for me. That's what she said.

SPEAKER_01 2:05

I love that. That's great. I had never seen this movie until I started dating my partner Nat. This is one of their core childhood movies, which we'll get into. But I haven't I hadn't seen it maybe like in the last two years I've seen it. So it's fresh for me still.

SPEAKER_02 2:24

Wow. Wow.

SPEAKER_01 2:25

But it does have one of my favorite things a movie can have, which is what?

SPEAKER_02 2:29

Heath Ledger.

SPEAKER_01 2:30

Well, uh yes. And second, second is is it music?

SPEAKER_02 2:35

Is it the music? Because the music is fun.

SPEAKER_01 2:37

Mm-hmm. But more specific.

SPEAKER_02 2:39

Oh my god, wait. I feel like I'm feeling a quiz about your favorite things. What is it?

SPEAKER_01 2:44

A dance scene.

SPEAKER_02 2:45

Oh, the dance. Oh, yeah, the little dance scene. That was fun.

SPEAKER_01 2:49

Yes. Ugh, it's so good. Oh my gosh. Okay. Here we are. You are much more like uh practiced in this film than I am. I'm I feel like this movie had more action than most we've watched. Not even sexual action, honestly, but like jousting. It was it felt like a different genre from what we normally watch, which is funny because like on paper it's exactly the genre. However, it was a lot of sporty spice time.

SPEAKER_02 3:21

Yeah, there's adventure, there was a clashing of steel, there was armor, there's horses, there was a point system, there's a point system.

SPEAKER_01 3:30

There was a light war and some scrolls.

SPEAKER_02 3:33

There's plenty of scrolls.

SPEAKER_01 3:35

So many scrolls. So many scrolls. Everybody, we get it with the scrolls. Okay. So for those of you who did not mash that button and have never seen this before. I'll also, as an aside, I love that that's your core memory of this. And last night, Nat and I watched it on DVD.

SPEAKER_03 3:53

Oh my god.

SPEAKER_01 3:55

Which makes it feel more appropriate for this podcast. You know, streaming, mmm, but like pulling out the DVD binder. Hold on, it's right here.

SPEAKER_02 4:04

The DVD binder?

SPEAKER_01 4:06

Imagine a DVD binder. All right, close your eyes and imagine it.

SPEAKER_02 4:09

Okay. Yeah, I remember those.

SPEAKER_01 4:12

Open your eyes. Is this what you imagined?

SPEAKER_02 4:15

Yes. That is the DVD binder.

SPEAKER_01 4:19

Alphabetized.

SPEAKER_02 4:20

Oh my God. Wait, of the legit ones though. See, I had my bootleg DVD binder back in the day.

SPEAKER_01 4:26

I bet there are probably bootlegs in. Well, I don't know. My partner is a pretty upstanding gentleman. They're pretty honest. However, Muppet Treasure Island, we could unpack that. Let's do a whole Muppet season. Next theme.

SPEAKER_02 4:42

Next theme foreshadowing.

SPEAKER_01 4:45

Okay. Anyway, if you have not seen it on your DVD player, on a charter bus on the way to a school field trip, in the middle of a school day during finals week when the teachers are over you and they're like, we're just gonna watch this because we're learning about the Canterbury Tales. Then allow me to give you a quickie. This film, Stars, you already heard it, The Hottiest of Hot, Heath Ledger. This was filmed in 2001, which is to me one of the best times for a movie to happen because it still has some of that 90s sensibility, but it feels a little bit more current. It's just like this great transitional time. I love a liminal space. It's a medieval action comedy, and it follows William Thatcher, who goes by the alter ego of Sir Ulrich von Liechtenstein.

SPEAKER_02 5:41

From Gelderland.

SPEAKER_01 5:42

From Gel from Gelderland. That is Heath Ledger. So his real name is William Thatcher. He's a peasant squire who, when he and the other guys who wander around with their lord, who is a knight who does jousting, they see that he gets injured in a battle and he dies. He dies halfway through. And in a moment of decision making, they decide, I think we can't let this money situation go to waste. Like this is a source of income. What if Heath Ledger makes himself into a knight and we make up a name? So it all starts with a with a ruse. So he disguises himself as a nobleman because only noblemen who have like noble blood, I think four to six generations back, yeah, are able to compete in jousting tournaments. So he defies strict class laws to quote change his stars, which is a phrase that he got from his dad when he was a small child. It'll it'll come up. He navigates romance, rivalry, and rock and roll-fueled jousts. So, like I said, his master suddenly dies, mid-tournament. They decide, Heath Ledger, you're the hotttiest, boom bodyest. You gotta take his place in the joust to win the prize money. They realize after a delightful montage of him practicing with his motley crew of friends that he's got a talent for it. So Watt and Roland, who are his friends, decide like, let's do it. We're gonna forge a noble pedigree and tour the European circuit of jousting. They happen to stumble upon a naked, destitute writer on a path who happened to be Jeffrey Chaucer, who agrees for a price to forge this noble pedigree. Basically, he forges like he's like a notary. He forges these documents. He's got a gift for the written word, which was rare at the time, especially for folks of their class, right? To be able to read and write. And so thank goodness they stumble upon him. He also has a bit of the showbiz bug and turns out to be an excellent MC when he's introducing Sir Ulrich slash Heath Ledger slash William. When they get there, he falls deeply in love with this woman whose name he does not know for a good portion of the film. She's high, she's like an upper class noble woman. We find out her name is Lady Jocelyn. We also see very early on that he earns the bitter hatred of the arrogant and sinister Count Adamar, his main competitor for the joust and for the lady's heart. This is played by the guy who is the villain in the movie The Holiday as well, Jasmine. So he just plays villains, this dude.

SPEAKER_02 8:38

Oh my god. Yeah, he he does a good villain-seething stare.

SPEAKER_01 8:42

He does. Eventually, William's secret is exposed when he returns to London to visit his impoverished blind father, breaking the law by assuming this noble title. Count Adamar is like obsessed with Heath Ledger and basically follows him during this London visit and sees he's the one who sees that he is like in this shitty ass neighborhood and hanging out with his dad. So he tells the police William is going to be arrested. However, the intervention of Edward the Black Prince grants William a royal pardon and knights him. Because there's a moment early on where William is getting ready to joust, and it turns out people start whispering. It gets really weird, and people realize that Edward the Prince is his opponent. And it is in disguise. In disguise. They're both in disguise because he, Heath Ledger, is in disguise pretending to be more noble than he is, and Prince Edward is in disguise trying to appear less noble than he is because nobody wants to potentially injure a member of the royal family, right? Like that would be treasonous. And so Prince Edward is really touched when Heath Ledger does go to fight him. Like he's like, no, like we're both doing the same thing here. So let's go for it.

SPEAKER_02 10:12

He wants to joust, let's joust.

SPEAKER_01 10:14

Yeah. Like, who who are we to keep people from doing the things they love? So at the very end of the movie, when Heath Ledger is like in the what do you call those?

SPEAKER_02 10:23

Oh, the stocks.

SPEAKER_01 10:25

The stocks, yeah. He's got his little arms through the thing and his head is through the thing, and everybody, all the townspeople are making fun of him. Prince Edward shows up and pardons him and gives him a knightly status. So now he has this new legitimate status, and he's able to return to the world championship just in time to face off against Count Adamar. Despite some dastardly cheating from Count Adamar that wounds William, he perseveres and defeats him, winning both the tournament and the heart of Lady Jocelyn. It's fun for the whole family. Tears are shed, points are made, people fall off horses. It's truly fun for the whole family.

SPEAKER_03 11:11

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 11:11

And they're throughout the whole thing, just to give you a taste, people, is like a fun rock and roll soundtrack. As well as their costumes really, they really tow the line between like, yes, this is Renaissance era, but also are we in the 70s? Are we in almost famous? They were so very they're it's very almost famous tunics, which I guess makes sense because the 70s tunic style kind of is peasant shirt energy. So they really leaned into that in a way that was delightful to behold. Very avant-garde costume.

SPEAKER_04 11:47

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 11:47

That was that's what happened. We joused, we fall in love. We're probably gonna get in most to the relationship between Heath Ledger, William. Do we want to call him William or Ulrich? Let's just decide.

SPEAKER_02 12:00

Let's call him William. Because by the end, he's he's now officially like Sir William.

SPEAKER_01 12:04

So and Jocelyn, Lady Jocelyn, knows him as William pretty early on. She gets the goss that his valets call him William.

unknown 12:14

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 12:15

This a lot of his jousting championship stuff is really colored by him proving his love for her and he and his compatriots negotiating what they think women want in order to be wooed versus what they actually want. And Jocelyn is a really, I love her as a character because she turns this whole noble lady damsel thing on its head in really juicy ways. But before we get into their romance, because I think that's going to be a bulk of our conversation, what other things stood out to you from a wide view? Let's widen the aperture. What what relationships felt really juicy to you?

SPEAKER_02 13:00

From a wider view. This movie had a lot of the like early 2000s, 90s, like misogynistic humor that in some ways the movie was saying, like, isn't this stupid to be misogynistic? And sometimes though, felt a little like it is just misogynistic. Because they leaned a lot into the like who can understand women anyway.

SPEAKER_04 13:26

Mm-hmm.

SPEAKER_02 13:27

They really liked that sort of line. But overall, it's a really funny movie and I love it. I Loki sort of ship Watt, who is Alan Tudic, and Chaucer. I feel like I feel like they had a little bit of chemistry going on, especially back in the end. Um I feel like there could have been something there.

SPEAKER_01 13:47

That would have been lovely. I think to your point about the misogyny, because there is quite a bit, quite a bit, and agreed, they do a really lovely job of calling it out in their own script, right?

SPEAKER_02 14:04

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 14:04

I think even their comments that are like, who understands women anyway, is beautifully troubled by the fact that they end up enlisting the support and then friendship of a female farrier, which is like the person who does horseshoes, um, because none of the people who make armor want to do William a solid and make him armor that he'll pay them for later when he wins. And so they're like, you can go talk to the fairy or the farrier, and he's like, What? It's a woman, and he's a dick about it, and then she makes the best fucking armor in the world, and for the rest of the time is a person in their small group who calls bullshit on the misogynistic comments. Yeah, and she loves it.

SPEAKER_02 14:55

Right in the movie. Yeah, she does. Yes. Yeah, there's a few times where they sort of act like she doesn't know anything, she's just a woman, and she proves them wrong by being very capable.

SPEAKER_01 15:07

Mm-hmm. And would love for like someone else in their friend group to call bullshit on it and not have it just be the woman who's in the friend group to be like, dumb bitches. Mm-hmm. What are you doing? But there are tender moments of the group talking through like how to write a love letter. Okay. And they get really vulnerable.

SPEAKER_02 15:29

Favorite scenes. It was so sweet because they have like, so William has been apart from Jocelyn for a while. The last time they spoke, they had this little argument. And so he's trying to write her a letter and he's dictating it to their bard, Chaucer, who's writing it down. And everyone sort of pitches in and shares different like memories of things they've said or things they've felt for like times they've been heartbroken.

SPEAKER_03 15:54

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 15:55

And I thought that was really sweet because the it seems rare to have movies about romance include stuff about relationships that have ended for a whole variety of reasons and not necessarily in like a so this is just setting them up for for the new relationship they're gonna be in.

SPEAKER_01 16:18

Yes, I agree. And it it was like a very vulnerable and earnest display of tenderness, I think, from these men who otherwise are kind of doing the whole like energy, you know? And this is like a moment where they're like, Oh, I was in love. And when she and I ended, I said this, and it all makes it into the letter, and she reads the letter and is so touched by it, too touched by it, because then she's like, tell me poetry now. And it's like, Well, actually, it you don't know the amount of work it took for us to come up with that. Yeah, it was a group effort. Yeah, it was a group project, and you're thinking it was solo, but it doesn't mean it was dishonest by any means. Like, I think she could have thought, Wow, so you didn't even write this yourself, because I think he did. He did say a lot of it, yeah. But there's definitely really beautiful parts that are embellished or the contributions of love stories of his friends that are that are used. It's yeah, I think their relationship, Jocelyn and Heath's, is really fun and very simple, it feels to me.

SPEAKER_02 17:38

Yeah, this was another one of those movies. We've talked about this before, where I'm just I'm watching it, I'm having fun, I'm like, oh yeah, I hope they'll they'll be together. They're clearly the main pair. I love them together, they're so fun. But then I stop and think about it and I'm like what do they actually why though? They're just both hot and have some chemistry together. They don't seem to actually talk about anything substantial to give us anything that they like have in common or goals. They have nothing in common. They agree on, like nothing.

SPEAKER_01 18:14

They have nothing in common. I think she admires his character. I think that's a big theme for him is as a knight. He takes it very seriously, and I think the only part of him that is duplicitous is that he had to lie about his heritage to get to be in the space. Yeah. But I think that the actual embodiment of knighthood is something he takes really seriously, and we see in flashbacks that as a child he deeply dreamt of being able to be a knight, but you know, logistically it felt unrealistic because there it's it's not your call to make, it's your bloodlines.

SPEAKER_02 18:56

You're kind of born into it or you're not.

SPEAKER_01 18:58

Yeah, and so he takes like his I don't know if the word is pride, but his integrity and his honesty and his virtues like very seriously. I think in an underdeveloped way, sometime. Like he's yeah, they they both feel everybody feels very young, except for the one valet guy, Watt, maybe. I don't know which is it Roland?

SPEAKER_02 19:26

The one who's not Alan Tudic.

SPEAKER_01 19:28

Yeah, the one who's not Alan Tudic, who's a little bit older. He he feels like he's a much more grounded adult human, whereas the others just feel like silly boys a lot of the time, which is fine. They are young. And I think that she, I think Jocelyn respects him and admires his virtue. I think she's also I think she's almost in a weird twist, like into him playing hard to get, because he's the only knight that has not sent word that he wants to win the tournament in her name. Which is basically like, hey, I think you're hot. This is for you, baby. Which apparently all the other knights are doing. And the fact that he isn't, I think is a challenge to her in a way that is unique because all she hears about is how beautiful she is.

SPEAKER_03 20:20

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 20:20

Which it we can we can she's stunning, yes. And I think it's interesting, given that that Heath Ledger's pursuit style works, because that's mostly what he talks about, too.

SPEAKER_02 20:36

Yeah, I think it's he takes a lot of the nightly stuff very seriously and like, I'm I'm sure, I'm a good guy, I'm strong, I'm I'm gonna win, I'm honest, I'm not gonna cheat. But he he hasn't grown up in it, so he doesn't know the like manners game and like the way you are supposed to talk about these things. So whenever he talks to her, he's really straightforward in a way that I think other knights are not with her.

SPEAKER_00 21:08

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 21:09

And he initially doesn't promise to win for her because he's like, Well, I just want to win. And that's what irritates her about all the other knights promising, I'm gonna win this for you. She's like, No, you're fucking you're winning for you because you want to win. You're gonna do that anyway. You're not doing anything.

SPEAKER_01 21:24

At least he's honest about it. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 21:26

Yeah, and that's why later it was really interesting, I thought, that she tells him they they have another argument again. I forget even why, but I think it's because he tells her I'm gonna win this for you. And then that pisses off.

SPEAKER_01 21:42

Well, they haven't they have an argument that okay, so she won't tell him his name, and then a lot of their interactions, like to move through the like whole substantive or not conversation, a lot of their interactions are through her lady's maid, sending messages while he's backstage getting ready or whatever. Who side note?

SPEAKER_02 22:01

I kind of thought they were gonna put the Lady's Maid with Roland. Like there was a little chemistry there. There was a moment where he seemed like really into her, and I thought that there was gonna be a secondary romance between them. But it never developed.

SPEAKER_01 22:14

That would have been cute. Yeah. Dare to dream, Blair. So a lot of their interactions are truly whispered down the lane. And he they have one good interaction. She asks, What are you gonna wear to the ball? And he's like, I don't know, what am I gonna wear to the ball? Why? And she's like, Well, my lady wants to dress to match you, meaning like, let's go together. Yeah. And so there's a delightful dance montage where he is learning in the stables how to dance from the woman who makes the armor. And it's very sweet. And he gets all dolled up somehow. And he continues to be like Count, the Count keeps trying to embarrass him and like expose that he's a fraud. Yeah. But at every turn, he just is charming. And Lady Jocelyn kind of saves his ass when the people are like, Show us a dance from Gelderland. And he's like, It's similar to what you're doing, but you know, a little bit more different. And then she's like, Let's just dance. Let's just dance. And then they do this incredible dance number.

SPEAKER_03 23:30

Uh-huh.

SPEAKER_01 23:30

It looks really fun. Fun. Yeah. It's not even that it was like particularly challenging, right? It's not like intense choreography, but everyone just starts like grooving. And the fact that they're playing the song, what is it, Golden Year? It's like very fun and modern music. It's like a 70s classic. And they're just like vibing, having a party. And it's just like so delightful to behold. I feel like that's the most we get to see, really, the two of them actually just flirting with each other and having fun in a like a more direct way because everything else seems to be whispered down the lane up until that point.

SPEAKER_02 24:14

Yes. And Adamar, of course, is not dancing at all. He's fuming. No, he's brooding.

SPEAKER_01 24:18

He's brooding from a large banquet table.

SPEAKER_03 24:21

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 24:22

And so things are things are vibing, but then he loses a round and is all sorts of angry about it. He's like all in a huff that he lost and is not handling it well. And that's a moment that she comes up to him and is like, What color do you want to wear for the ball tonight? And he's like, I don't want to fucking go to a ball. And she's like, Okay. And he's like super misogynistic to her because he's mad he lost.

SPEAKER_02 24:49

He tells her a silly girl, right?

SPEAKER_01 24:51

Yes. And he's like, he's like, balls don't fucking matter. It doesn't matter. And she's like, you know, like, what is a rose if not the petals it wears? And he's like, there's no fucking use for a rose. There's no use for a petal or a flower. And she's like, I'm sorry, you're just a you're out here on your horse with your stick, and I'm supposed to take that seriously, which I love for her. And he he gets frustrated and he says, You're just a silly girl, which is so fucked up. And she's like, better to be a silly girl than to be a silly boy with a horse and a stick. And so he is he fucked it up. He fucked it up, Roy. He sure did, in my opinion. And then they're at odds for a while. He's like working the circuit in other cities. And it's only then, like may many weeks, it seems like weeks or months later, that he is going to Paris for the for a big tournament and wants to write her a letter to meet him there. And that's when they all put their heads together to write this letter. Where he, by the by, never says I'm sorry.

SPEAKER_02 26:00

Yeah. He never said sorry. Yeah, I shouldn't have said that. That was mean of me.

SPEAKER_01 26:05

I was a dick.

SPEAKER_02 26:06

Yeah, I was being a dick. Yeah, I wish he would have apologized for that more. And I she's such a strong character. I love her personality, and she like even when she's talking to her ladies mate or something, she says something like, you know, to the effect of men always just want women to be silent and expect us to just sit around and like look pretty, and I don't want that in my life. I need a man who is interested to like hear my thoughts and for me to be my own person. And we certainly get a strong contrast between Heath Ledger, who who seems to like going back and forth with her and hearing her talk, but he is still a little bit like, well, you're just a silly girl. And Adamar, who is straight up at some point he says to Heath Ledger, like, yeah, I do see her as an object to just like adorn my house with. She's a possession for me to have.

SPEAKER_04 26:58

Mm-hmm.

SPEAKER_01 26:58

Yes, because Adamar basically it becomes the goal to defeat Adamar. Like he's like, all of these tournaments don't mean shit unless I'm getting to beat this guy. Yeah. And Adamar is in the army, and so he gets whisked away to the battlefield. So he's not in a lot of the tournaments, which I think is frustrating to Heath, generally speaking. And so when they finally do reunite at the final tournament, he they're standing there in front of, I guess, the royalty for the introductions, and there's this interaction they have where Adamar's like, it seems like you've got in trophies and horses and women since I've been left, but since I've been gone. And Heath Ledger's like, in is that the order you put them in? And he's like, honestly, yeah, with some exceptions. And he looks at Jocelyn as like, she would make a lovely trophy. And he's like, Oh, what there's a sweet line he says, where like, is she your he says something about like, is she your target? He asks Heath Ledgers, like, Oh, is she your target? And he says, No, she's the arrow. Yeah. Which I think is really lovely.

SPEAKER_02 28:05

Yeah, that was really sweet.

unknown 28:06

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 28:07

But Adamara is basically like, I'm in talks with her dad to get married to her. She's gonna be mine. It's hilarious. You think you could ever beat me, which is a thing that continues to happen throughout the throughout the film. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 28:18

Which actually, by that point in the movie, Heath Ledger and Jocelyn had already had sex, right?

SPEAKER_01 28:24

Oh, they had been together.

SPEAKER_02 28:26

Yeah. Yeah, they've been together.

SPEAKER_01 28:27

Yeah. So we we cut we cut we cut ahead. But the the letter is written after he fucks up and doesn't apologize, but this letter does the trick and she says, I'll meet you in Paris. And she sends back a kiss by way of Alan Tudic. And it's the cutest little moment because he's like, What did she send me? What did she send me? What did she send me? He's like a truly a kid with like waiting for his Christmas present. And he's like, Did she send a token? Did she send a token? And Alan Tudic's like, ah, she did. And he's like, Well, what is that? What is it? And he kisses him, and then you see Heath Ledger's response, he's like confused, and then like, ah, ah, and like scampers around.

SPEAKER_00 29:15

He's like, Did you see? She kissed me! She kissed me!

SPEAKER_01 29:18

He's like buddy the other. It's so cute. And so she comes to Paris and they meet in a chapel, and which is kind of where he follows weirdly followed her the first time they met to be like, Who the hell are you? You're interesting. And at that point, he couldn't even get her name out of her. But now here they are at another church, which I suppose they meet at these churches because it's like a respectable public place for them to be as man and woman.

SPEAKER_02 29:49

I think it's I think it's also just because it's a nice set.

SPEAKER_01 29:53

Mm-hmm.

SPEAKER_02 29:53

To be honest.

SPEAKER_01 29:54

And and she says, like, I love to come because he asks about why what's the deal with the churches. And she's like, I'd love to look at the stained glass. It's so bright and vivid in this really otherwise dreary world. And we see their whole interaction from a wide shot. That whole scene happens from a wide lens, which I thought was really Yeah. Interesting as a choice. That like we see them walking the whole length of this church and going back and forth. It's like very much they like are kind of like yo-yoing with each other physically. And she's asking for her poem, and he goes to her boobs, and she's like, You're bronze. This sucks. Stop it. What the fuck are you doing? And he's like, How can I prove my love to you? She's like, Is that do you mean that seriously? He's like, Yes. How?

SPEAKER_02 30:47

Yeah, and that's when then he's like, I'll win for you. And she's like, No, lose for me. And he is you want to win for you, yeah. And to actually challenge your ego, if you love me, you will lose.

SPEAKER_01 30:59

And he gets so angry, and she's like, He's pissed. Then you don't love me. If you're saying you love me, you have to sacrifice something, and you're not gonna. And so he's all angry. And somewhere in this interaction, I think it's the scene where they're they're getting heated, and a priest guy comes up to her and is like shushing them. She's like, Why the fuck are you shushing me? Shush him. Don't just shush me and send him away.

SPEAKER_02 31:25

Don't shush me and not him. That's not fair. Get out of my face.

SPEAKER_01 31:28

Yes. She likes fully like yells at this priest. I'm like, Yes, get it, get it, Jocelyn.

SPEAKER_02 31:34

Yes. I love her.

SPEAKER_01 31:35

And she's had throughout, there have been several interactions in these churches with a priest who is like, must be so hard to be beautiful. I'll pray for you that you'll get ugly soon so that you won't just be an object, basically. So she is very aware that her beauty is the currency and is looking for someone who can be a person with her and see her and meet her in all of her qualities, including her wit and her stubbornness and her voice. And I love that she is like, lose, go lose, do it.

SPEAKER_02 32:13

Yeah, lose. And he's pissed about it, but he does it. And he gets his ass kicked.

SPEAKER_01 32:17

He gets his ass whooped. And it's halfway through, and she's loving it. You're watching her like humiliation kink is halfway through.

SPEAKER_02 32:26

She like can't believe it. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 32:27

She stands up and is like holding onto a pillar with this mischievous glint in her eye, being like, oh my God. She's like falling and she's getting wet watching it. She's like, oh my god, he loves me. And everyone is like, This is painful to watch. And he's back with his buds getting basically ye old PT done on his arm. And she sends her lady's maid to be like, I have word from my lady. And she says, if you love her, you will win the tournament. And so he gets, he's so angry, but he gets the go-ahead to be like, All right, go, go do your thing. Go do it.

SPEAKER_02 33:02

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 33:03

And he he does. He gets to the final, the final thing. Is this where it's with Count Adamar?

SPEAKER_02 33:11

No, because it's after this one where he's like all beat up and he's laid up in his bed afterward that she comes to see him and they have sex.

SPEAKER_01 33:18

Yeah. Yeah. So he wins the tournament and is all wounded in this bed. You guys, these tents are not janky. I need you to know this.

SPEAKER_02 33:31

They're nice too.

SPEAKER_01 33:32

The tents, it feels like in Harry Potter when you go in, when they're at the Wizarding World Cup and you go into these tents and it's like a whole beautiful home inside. It feels like that. It's lots of diaphanous sheer fabrics. Like you walk into the tent, and then there's like a little vestibule, and then these sheer curtains that she parts.

SPEAKER_02 33:50

And like a real bed.

SPEAKER_01 33:51

And he's on this real bed with all this beautiful tapestry-like bedding. Cozy as hell. It's cozy as hell. You would you would pay good money on Airbnb to rent that tent today.

SPEAKER_02 34:05

Uh, it's glamping for sure.

SPEAKER_01 34:07

It's a glamping tent. Absolutely. And I want to know how you felt about their sex scene, their love scene. What did you notice? What did you like?

SPEAKER_02 34:18

I it was actually super interesting because we didn't see much. We see them kiss ultimately, and then they sort of like fumble off the screen together into the bed, and then it fades to black blackens the next day. So we don't we don't actually get a lot of the sex scene, but it's clear what happened. I liked a lot that Chaucer sees her going to his room or his tent and he says, bed her well, my lady. He's like excited for him.

SPEAKER_01 34:48

He's like Guinevere, Guinevere visits. Lancelot. Lancelot. Bed her well, lady.

SPEAKER_02 34:54

Yeah, yeah. So he's having his little dramatic writer's moment. The way they talk to each other was sweet. And it again, it's one of those interesting things where it's like I I like them together, but they don't actually have anything in common, have like a any substantive conversation. I don't know what their relationship is actually built on other than attraction. But it was cute. She like hurts him a little bit because she like leans over on him and it's on his broken rib or some shit. And he's like, I'm fucked up. Like the surgeon has been here and said, My ribs are basically.

SPEAKER_01 35:28

Should I get a surgeon? And he's like, I they've been. I I ain't well. But he's like, My dad always, my dad always said, like, you have to take the good with the pain. And she's like, basically, she's so fucking mischievous. She loves this power. She's like, Did I cause the pain?

SPEAKER_02 35:46

Did I do that?

SPEAKER_01 35:47

Did I do that? And then she's like, Am I to cause the good as well?

SPEAKER_02 35:52

Yeah. And then they have.

SPEAKER_01 35:54

Yeah, it's so I love it. And then they do what I can only describe. Tell me what I want to know if you know what I'm gonna say. I loved in their physical interaction.

SPEAKER_02 36:07

I don't I don't know. I don't know what you're gonna say.

SPEAKER_01 36:10

Matt rewind this. They have what feels like have you ever seen two puppies playing where they meet each other for the first time and they like are sniffing each other's faces? They do that. They like they kiss, they kiss, and then they're like close to each other's faces and they go like with their noses. They do like a little like nose play.

SPEAKER_02 36:36

Just a little nuzzle.

SPEAKER_01 36:41

It was so cute, but it wasn't like a it wasn't like a a nose nuzzle where the noses are touching. It wasn't like this.

SPEAKER_00 36:48

It was like a it was so playful.

SPEAKER_01 36:52

It was so playful and cute. Uh I was I was watching it. I was like, yes, nose play. And Nat came running into the room and was like, what? I missed it. I was like, they did this sweet nose moment. And they're like, play back the tape. Let's rewind, baby.

SPEAKER_02 37:10

Wait, okay. So I want to ask you from a behind the screen perspective, is something like that choreographed? Is it written in the script? Do they work through that ahead of time? Do they just try it out and then be like, oh yeah, that was cool. Let's do that again in the next take. Like, how does that work?

SPEAKER_01 37:26

It it depends. I mean, in that era, it was all do it, you know? There weren't intimacy coordinators. And a lot of the time, even now, like in like kissing intimacy is often not super high-touch choreography all the time. It depends on the values of the director or like the investment of the director and other folks in that storytelling of kissing as a storytelling moment. Uh you know, my value is that kissing is such a storytelling moment. And I think because there is still this idea that like intimacy coordinators are like the the boundaries police, which is not helpful narrative. It's like, well, why would we need you? They said they're okay with kissing, they'll just kiss. And it's like, bitch, I am a storyteller. I am a choreographer. I'm here to make it look good. And so it depend it depends. There are some scenes where the the script will be written out pretty detailed in terms of like what happens in what order. And sometimes it's as vague as like they make out and fade off screen. And so what those beats look like might need more clarity. Sometimes, if it's a depending on the nature of the scene, there'll be a rehearsal day before people are on set or a few rehearsal days before people are on set, so that you're not wasting the light and the space and the location and all of that, figuring that stuff out on set, because that's, you know, time is money, is very much the energy, and there's a lot of urgency on a set. So a lot of that theoretically should have happened before, and what's happening on set is is kind of tweaking moments. Some folks really like a very on to the moment choreographed thing that's really grounding for some actors, and depending on the nature of the storytelling, if it's like a higher, higher intense intensity scene, or if there's like a lot of moving parts or really specific shots people are wanting, you want that specificity. But for some folks, it's like cool, this there's gonna be maybe three or four kisses here. Open mouth is fine, we don't need to see any tongue. Everybody keep your tongues in your mouths. The energy is playful, and then through through that playground you have set, people kind of improv within that. You wanna, I mean, ultimately, you want to trust everybody to do their job well. And I think we have a pretty large idea in our society that actors and artists are somehow separate from the rest of society and magically don't have any hangups or purity culture background or sexual shame or like weirdness about sex and intimacy. But a lot of people do. A lot of a lot of people do, whether or not you're performing it as a character. So that's the long answer to your.

SPEAKER_02 40:32

Yeah, interesting. Well, thank you. And I guess speaking of purity culture, something else I found really interesting about like I guess the movie overall and this scene in particular, they really don't make a big deal out of it. Like they they have the he's the defender of Italian virginity. But other than that, they don't ever bring up like, is she a virgin? Is he a virgin? Is it okay that like is it drama that they're having sex? It seems pretty casual.

SPEAKER_01 41:03

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 41:04

And and even then when Adamar's like, I'm gonna make her I'm gonna talking to her dad, I'm gonna marry her, she's gonna be my prize. There's not the little like, oh, really well, I already fucked her, so she's like ruined or something. Like I've already claimed her in some way. They don't even go that route at all. And it doesn't come up. And I thought that was really interesting for the way I have a preconception about this time period policing sexuality in that way. And in the way that I think even modern times, or at least in 2001, we even were kind of policing virginity and relationships in that way.

SPEAKER_01 41:41

Yeah. There's an allusion to the expectations and system, but it is not we don't see it enacted in this relationship, right? There's, like you said, the oh, you know, protector of Italian virginity. There is him saying, I'm I'm talking with her dad, which is like this is how things are done. There's when the when he eventually gets outed for not being noble, she comes directly to him and is like, you have to run. The police are here. And there's this whole scene in which everyone who loves him is saying, Please run. We don't want to see you carried away and in the stocks. Like, please don't do that. And he refuses to because of his honor. He's like, I am a knight. I have nothing to be ashamed of, I have nothing to hide. I am going to be a knight. And she and Heath Ledger are having this interaction where he's like, You don't want to be poor with me. He's like, You would you would live with me on the run with the pigs? And she was like, Yeah. The poor get to marry for love.

SPEAKER_02 42:53

Yeah. Yeah, that was interesting too, because the movie doesn't talk too much about class stuff. It sort of starts to touch on it more at the end. I mean, there's the fact that the thing is. The whole premise is poor stuff. But they don't really talk about it a lot until towards the end where they show like Heath Ledger's dad making the hard decision to like, all right, I'm gonna let my my young son go and work for this knight so that he can be a squire because I know that that'll offer him a better life. He'll be taken care of. He loves knights, and I can't really afford to take care of him, even though this is hard for me and I love my son. And then we also get these, like where the little girl who's a big fan of William is like she kind of is into knights and wants to be a knight. But she also is like, you know, I live in this poorer part of town. And then also this moment where he's like, Are you serious, you noble lady? Want to live with me and we'd be poor and like bring the pigs inside in the winter and sleep in our room with the pigs. And she's like, Yeah, I would do that. Because yeah, like you said, the one luxury that the poor do get is to marry for love in a way that she does not have that option in her life.

SPEAKER_01 44:23

It does make me wonder the I it feels like the only like grounded in reality conversation the two of them have in the whole movie.

SPEAKER_04 44:31

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 44:32

And to be fair, she thinks that he is noble up until that point. So maybe that wasn't a a conversation that in her mind was one that even needed to happen because it wasn't an issue. However, it makes me wonder the logistics of like, okay, so now he's knighted by Prince Edward. He's officially Sir William Thatcher. He gets his name back. Is he is he gonna be noble for real now? Like, is he gonna have money?

SPEAKER_02 45:05

I don't know, because he doesn't have land. It's not like he owns land.

SPEAKER_01 45:08

Right. And is he just gonna like joust his little heart out and then have money from jousting? Is that the logistics?

SPEAKER_02 45:14

I guess I guess. And sell the little gold trophies that they get. Although now that you mention it, I wonder how much she knew or suspected because uh obviously his whole fucking name is is fully made up. Von Liechtenstein from Gelderland is like not a real place, I don't think. And he at the banquet where Adamar's like, show us a little dance from where you're from, William Ulrich. And he's like fumbling because there is no dance. She jumps in to save his ass. And like sort of acts like she knows it. But she knows that that's not a thing when she does that.

SPEAKER_01 45:58

Yeah. So she catches on pretty early. I think in that fall scene is probably your right, where she starts to catch on. And then when they're in the tent up with him in the tent, before they fuck, before they kiss, before anything, she's like she greets him as Ulrich and is like, my lady's maid tells me your valet calls you William. Is that true? And he says, Yeah. She's like, okay, your name doesn't matter to me.

SPEAKER_02 46:25

Yeah.

unknown 46:25

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 46:26

Which I think is her way of saying I know something's up. You're faking an identity in some way, and I am interested in you, not in all the bullshit. I think is what we're supposed to take from that.

SPEAKER_03 46:41

I think so too.

SPEAKER_01 46:42

But the logistics of it would be I'm just curious, like, okay, now what?

SPEAKER_02 46:49

Right. It'd be a real problem. Cause like, I don't even know legally like if she were to just can she just run away and marry him? Is her dad's permission required legally in some way in this time period? I don't know.

SPEAKER_01 47:04

But I think because this is such like an anachronistic film, right? Like you have this blending of time period and convention and language so much in it. I think we're supposed to dispend our, you know, belief and be like, it'll work out. Which is something that I think most of these movies we're watching, it's like, don't ask these follow-up questions. Stop it. Just let them be happy. And it's like, okay, but he still has like he might have a title now. He got no name. He has no like he's got nowhere.

SPEAKER_03 47:42

He's not a house.

SPEAKER_01 47:44

He's got nowhere to live.

SPEAKER_02 47:45

Yeah. He got nowhere to live. I don't know what the deal is with his friends. If they have a home.

SPEAKER_01 47:52

Right.

SPEAKER_02 47:53

They both wanted to like go back to England at the very beginning. And then they talked about when they came to London that it had been like decades or at least five years, I think was the shortest period of time it had been for one of them.

SPEAKER_01 48:04

Six months for one of them.

SPEAKER_02 48:06

Oh, six months.

SPEAKER_01 48:07

Six months, I think three years, five years, and then twelve for Heath Ledger.

SPEAKER_04 48:12

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 48:14

Yeah, I I have questions about this, but also I don't think we're supposed to. I think we're supposed to be like, yay, there together.

SPEAKER_02 48:23

No, yeah, we're supposed to say hell yeah. And then they played the Queen song at the end. So that was awesome.

SPEAKER_01 48:28

Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Yes. It this movie, more so than some of the ones we have watched, is a real caricature of the rom-com as a genre that it's not about like when people say I love you, they mean I lust you. You know, it's like we're not seeing love. We're not this was not a love story. This was uh an attraction chemistry lust commitment to following that story, yeah, which is okay, but like call it that because I think we young Veronica watching this would have been like and then it just continues that way. Life logistics don't matter, don't ask that question, just be in it, and then we have people who are like, What do you mean love's supposed to be enough? And in reality, love is not always enough, you know, and that it makes people feel like it's a moral failing when things, oh my god, the zoomies, my cat is having are you seeing her run behind? I'm seeing it. The zoomies are great.

SPEAKER_02 49:46

That was a tight circuit. She came back immediately.

SPEAKER_01 49:49

She did, she's doing laps. Grow you a cat. I don't know.

SPEAKER_02 49:58

I think that's an interesting point because now that you mentioned it, I think a lot of these, and maybe what has frustrated me is that in a literal sense, like romance movies are more about a a sort of erotic fantasy and not an actual love story about building a long like a relationship with someone, a deep connection with a lot of people.

SPEAKER_01 50:22

Whether or not it's long term, right?

SPEAKER_02 50:24

Whether or not it's long term, but building a deep connection with someone rather than sexual chemistry being so electric and exciting and fun and and finally getting to be together after some something is keeping you apart. And that part feels more like an erotic fantasy and what is really appealing to people. But it's interesting that it seems like we have this cultural game we have to play where we have to dress that up as like, well, that it that's the love story though. And I don't know if that's because we're saying 100% those are always one a one-to-one thing, or if it's because there's some discomfort around acknowledging sexual desire or or erotic desire in fantasy, and that it is fine for that to be the point of the story. It doesn't have to be a love story for it to be fun and enjoyable and positive. I don't know.

SPEAKER_01 51:17

Yeah, that's a good yeah, it's a good question. It makes me wonder a chicken and egg sort of question is do we create these movies because people look back on that really exciting newness and those exciting feelings with such fondness that they just want to like watch it and bask in it forever because it is the beginning of a love story. However, it is the fun, shiny, erotic, unknown, will they, won't they thing? And that is really exciting to watch and fun to watch. It's fun to watch people overcome obstacles and finally get to be together. And I wonder, does that being the that being the only stories that we see sets us up to then be like, ugh, and then then what? This is it's all a let is it all a letdown? And the answer is no, it's not all a letdown, but we're made to feel like deep knowing and comfort and stability and whatever other things come after the limerence and feel-good drug chemicals that are going on when you're feeling crushes and attraction for the first time. Once those begin to naturally fade, because that's what the body does over time. I think we're we're supposed to feel like that's sad. And that it's some sort of moral failing that the spark, this spark is the spark is not always at an 11. And that's not to say that you can't, and many people do, cultivate moments of that erotic connection, and that is a practice, right?

SPEAKER_02 53:16

I think I don't think something you can do.

SPEAKER_01 53:19

Right. I don't think you and I would be in this field if we didn't believe that that kind of connection, maybe even like I would say an even better connection, which is like that feeling plus deep knowing and trust and safety. With, and this is not just in monogamy or long-term relationships, but like this can happen in many styles of relationships. Like that is that is delicious and that is worth finding intention to cultivate. However, I think it all kind of like falls into this narrative that like we are out of control of this and it is either there forever or it goes away, and that means that the relationship should end.

SPEAKER_02 54:03

Yes. Yeah, I agree. I think the spark, the problem I have with the spark is that it creates the idea, like you said, that it happens to you and it's out of your control, and when it's gone, the relationship is dead. And not that it also doesn't have to be so traumatic all the time. Like a healthy relationship is boring in a good way because it's relatively predictable. Not that there's not passion, not that it's not erotic or having a lot of fun together or a lot of affection, but that that is something you're co-creating intentionally, and it's not because of a unknown or random chaos that happens to you in the relationship, of random fights and conflict and problems that arise from the outside world at your relationship. Those don't need to be the source of the spark of passion and joy and connection.

SPEAKER_00 55:02

Right.

SPEAKER_01 55:03

Yeah. I think at the heart of all of it, many of us just want to feel present and alive. And the early stages of a crush or romance or a relationship of any kind, whether it's one night or two weeks or whatever, those those chemicals that come through our brain during those those times, we do feel really like locked in on our life, right? We feel in it in a way that when things are more stable, it can feel like that automatic drive just kind of kicks in and people are just bopping along.

SPEAKER_03 55:50

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 55:51

And I and I do wonder if we were to find other ways in these fucked up systems we live in to more regularly connect with ourselves and our life as it's happening, whether that's through art or through dance or through sex or through like community or ritual. Like, what are these other ways that aren't just that early spark that we can feel present and like locked into our life as it happens?

SPEAKER_02 56:30

Yeah. Yeah. And I think there's the degree, the idea of the commitment also, like you said, being so in it, like the fantasy of being on either end of like someone is willing to lose, to get their ass kicked badly, to be humiliated publicly for me because I asked for it. Or I am willing to like just subject myself to so much physical and social harm. Like I and I can take it because I'm strong and because I'm in love and I believe in this. Like being on either side of that and feeling that certainty is really appealing.

SPEAKER_01 57:12

Yes. Absolutely. I I want to be clear that I'm I can't speak for you, but I'm I'm not trying to like shit on romance and lust and attraction and that being a delicious part of relationship. I think I'm just noticing that the only, not the only, but the majority of romance, at least in the genres we've been watching, really are about that early stage of lust and chemistry and erotic attraction. And I wish we got to see more of a love letter to other parts of relationship as well. Because I think culturally that could shift our personal experience of that being valid and worthy and not a lack of the beginning, you know?

SPEAKER_02 58:02

Yeah. No, I think that's been coming across in what you're saying. I was just reiterating too that like the certainty, the confidence you feel when you have that spark that, and then when you're choosing to create it and cultivate it later in the relationship, when it's not just happening to you out of nowhere. It's a lot harder and you maybe don't feel as confident.

SPEAKER_01 58:22

Yeah. Because I I feel like in even in movies, we see all the time people be like, it shouldn't be this hard. And that's, you know, a relative scale. We get to decide what is too hard or like is hard in ways that feel aligned and just like, yeah, this takes work, but it is not a job. It is not like climbing an uphill mountain and being miserable the whole time, right? Figuring out what is that sweet spot of taking intention versus you know, beating your head against a wall to keep something happening that maybe is best to release.

unknown 59:04

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 59:05

Yeah. I would be interested in us. We could try and find more movies that are about the middle of a relationship.

SPEAKER_01 59:14

Yeah, that aren't just like we're up, we hate each other now.

SPEAKER_02 59:17

Yeah. We're all kind of miserable.

SPEAKER_01 59:21

Right. We're all kind of miserable, so let's like have some infidelity, is usually, I think, that story. But I bet we can find it.

SPEAKER_02 59:30

We can find we'll look well, you know what? We'll look for it and we'll watch those ones too and comment on them. But I guess for Night's Tale, I want to hear favorite small detail, whether it is a particular line, uh, a detail about a scene, staging, costuming, acting, whatever.

SPEAKER_01 59:46

For me, it really is the nose nuzzle and the arrow. I think those are my two favorite moments.

SPEAKER_02 59:52

Beautiful.

SPEAKER_01 59:53

What about you?

SPEAKER_02 59:54

I think my two favorite small details are that the top of Adamar's Lance is a fist.

SPEAKER_03 1:00:01

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 1:00:01

That is really, really funny to me. I love that. And also the one part of the intro that Chaucer does for William one time that's like, he spent a whole year in silence in Greece. Just to better understand the sound of a whisper. I don't understand why. I don't even understand that sentence. Maybe I need to spend a year in silence to contemplate.

SPEAKER_00 1:00:28

To better understand the sound of a whisper. On that note, what is your healthy ever after for these two? Healthier. Let's be real.

SPEAKER_02 1:00:38

My healthier ever after, you know, I feel like William needs a little time off from the jousting. I get that that's his thing. I don't want him to abandon it. But his body maybe needs some time to recover. And I would love for him and Jocelyn to get to spend some quality time like outside of the adrenaline cycle of the competition, getting to know each other. Talking through how many pigs they want to have. All that good stuff.

SPEAKER_01 1:01:04

I would love for there to be an off-season in jousting. Like, is it like baseball or another sport where there's an off-season? Would love that. Because I think you're right. I think he needs a little sabbatical. Not, I don't want him to like give up what he loves, right? His whole entire life. He's been wanting to get to do this. I'm not here to yuck his yum. And I think you're right. Some time to do like what happens when you've achieved your dream? Like, who are you? What what then? And like figuring out his sense of self as like a fuller person, not just rooted in his lack of nobility, because now he has it. So like who do you want to be? And whether or not that happens all with Jocelyn or not, I think is exciting to see, would be exciting to see. I'd love for them to maybe have some one-on-one time and just really get to know each other. See, the boring shit. I'm like, maybe they go, maybe they go to Greece and they hang out and they spend a year in silence. Fuck a lot and fight and laugh and figure out how they do conflict and figure out how they repair, you know, the juicy shit that is um that we don't get to see.

SPEAKER_02 1:02:14

Yeah. Yeah. And maybe for him to spend some time with his dad. He finally found him after so long.

SPEAKER_01 1:02:20

Yeah. I think some good dad time would be excellent.

unknown 1:02:24

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:02:25

And maybe, I don't know, figure out your find a financial planner. We need to figure out how you're gonna how you're gonna keep going.

SPEAKER_02 1:02:32

Yeah, for real. Gotta put some money away.

SPEAKER_01 1:02:34

Especially if you have a gambler as your MC. I think that's a crucial piece.

SPEAKER_02 1:02:38

Something has got to be done. I mean, they they seemed like he had a hold on it for the most part throughout the movie, but then they were doing that they were doing some gambling as a group, and it feels risky. I feel like Chaucer's on the precipice and he needs uh some gamblers anonymous kind of support or something. He does. Something.

SPEAKER_01 1:03:03

Or like, you know, just make sure he doesn't have access to all of their winnings.

SPEAKER_02 1:03:08

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:03:09

You know. We can't have a Lord Featherington situation.

SPEAKER_02 1:03:12

Maybe kissing Heath Ledger awoke something in Alan Tudic, and then he can think about the chemistry he has with Chaucer, and you know what? Maybe he can manage the money for them, and that's part of their deal.

SPEAKER_01 1:03:25

That's hot. I like that.

SPEAKER_02 1:03:27

I like that.

SPEAKER_01 1:03:29

Beautiful. And on that note, I hear the bell ringing. We have to leave our Canterbury Tales class and head to math. So I'll be right back.

SPEAKER_02 1:03:37

Alright, mash that button for me.

SPEAKER_01 1:03:39

Mash that button. You press pause. Be kind, rewind.

SPEAKER_02 1:03:44

We're gonna have to lick that calf again.

SPEAKER_01 1:03:47

What?

SPEAKER_02 1:03:48

That was another phrase she would say. If we were doing something bad and she was like threatening that we would have to redo it, y'all gonna have to lick that calf again.

SPEAKER_01 1:03:56

Lick a calf?

SPEAKER_02 1:03:58

Lick that calf again.

SPEAKER_01 1:04:00

All right, well, let's go lick it, y'all.

SPEAKER_02 1:04:02

Get licking.

SPEAKER_01 1:04:04

Get to licking. Bye-bye.

SPEAKER_02 1:04:06

Bye. Thank you so much for joining us today on Mom's Not Home Till Six. Leave us a rating or review on Spotify, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you found us. Pitch us your alternate ending or send suggestions to mom's not home till six at gmail.com, spelled with no punctuation and numeral six. You can find more from us by following us on Instagram at mom's not home till six or on blue sky at mom's not home. Find more from Veronica by following her on Instagram at The DressRearsal, or support the podcast financially on Patreon at the DressRearsal. We'd like to extend our gratitude to the queer and trans communities, past and present, who've made it possible to be the people we are today. And to you for listening. Now be sure to change that TV channel back to something appropriate before mom gets home. And we'll catch you next time.